Davis X. Machina - July 21, 2010 | 11:25 pm · Link

Sounds phishy to me….

robertdsc-PowerBook & 27 titles - July 21, 2010 | 11:38 pm · Link

I’m looking at the Paypal Security Center & don’t notice anything new. I think it’s a scam.

arguingwithsignposts - July 21, 2010 | 11:41 pm · Link

Sounds like a scam. I have used PayPal in the past few days and had no such issues. Also, too, I thought we were moving away from using the SSN for these types of things since it’s technically against the law.

KG - July 21, 2010 | 11:43 pm · Link

@arguingwithsignposts: um, not technically, completely against the law, and has been for at least a decade. I remember when it happened, because I was in college and my student ID number changed because we use to use are SSN. I did not like having to learn a new number.

BethanyAnne - July 21, 2010 | 11:45 pm · Link

Nope, nothing new for me. Type in the URL by hand into a restarted browser. See if the requirements are still there.

Corner Stone - July 21, 2010 | 11:46 pm · Link

Seriously? Far Beyond Driven is the much superior Pantera album.
This can not be debated.

Anne Laurie - July 21, 2010 | 11:46 pm · Link

I ended up having to call their ‘Live Help’ number when the Spousal Unit’s laptop got stolen back in February and all our passwords had to be “reset”. IIRC, the number is well-hidden, but if you click thru enough false fronts on the help-with-your-account screen you’ll get there eventually. Took three techs & an off-line supervisors more than an hour to actually reset their damned system, repeatedly, and they all acted like this was… not so unusual. Were I you, therefore, I’d start hunting & be prepared to spend some quality phone time.

Wordsmith - July 21, 2010 | 11:48 pm · Link

Sounds terribly fishy and/or phishy to me, too. I have Paypal’s card. Please keep in mind I’m coping with an estrogen leak somewheres, soo…. I don’t ever recall having to use SSN or scan photo ID, etc.

Karatist Preacher - July 21, 2010 | 11:54 pm · Link

I agree with most of the comments – I just switched banks and did a paypal transaction in the past day – I’ve never had to give them that info.

Corner Stone - July 21, 2010 | 11:55 pm · Link

@Wordsmith: I’m…sorry?
What?

TaMara (BHF) - July 22, 2010 | 12:02 am · Link

since I lost my wallet a month ago

Wasn’t that the same day you found Rosie? Maybe she ate it.

Vole - July 22, 2010 | 12:18 am · Link

This does sound scammish, but Paypal is still a pain in the ass. I run the website for a new nonprofit. I put up a paypal donate button on the site only to discover that when someone wants to donate using their credit card, they have to open a paypal account to do so. Just what you want when you’re asking people to donate some of their hard earned money—to make them fill out forms and open an account they might never use.

The Raven - July 22, 2010 | 12:55 am · Link

PayPal is under a consent decree in 26 states for playing fast and loose with consent practices. Prudent birds count their claws after roosting nearby.

Contact numbers:
http://consumerist.com/2007/10.....aypal.html

Lots of PayPal dirt:
http://consumerist.com/cgi-bin.....038;page=1

Ailuridae - July 22, 2010 | 1:26 am · Link

@mclaren:

Err, you can get you SS card with nothing but your birth certificate. Which you can typically get by calling a hospital with your date of birth, date and time of birth etc.

Worst case a parent or a relative with the same surname can get it for you.

This would all be solved (as well as eliminating identity theft) with biometrically linked national ID cards.

Morbo - July 22, 2010 | 1:40 am · Link

Relevant to both this conversation and one of last night’s (I think) open threads: hostile otters.

Malron aka eclecticbrotha - July 22, 2010 | 2:14 am · Link

John, don’t submit that info. I just went to my Paypal site and I didn’t see any such requirements.

mclaren - July 22, 2010 | 2:19 am · Link

@Mnemosyne: Hey, there, ignorant kook, thanks for spouting gibberish!

Apparently you’re not aware that many states require picture ID in order to get a copy of your birth certificate. New York, Connecticut, many other states now demand picture ID before they’ll give you a copy of your birth certificate.

Yes indeedy, lose your wallet with your drivers license and SS card, and you’re burned.

Before you open your mouth, learn something about the police state in which we live. A police state in which many thousands of U.S. citizens are now unable to get picture ID or a passport. Here’s an example of someone unable to get ID for obvious reasons—lost his original birth certificate, can’t get a new one without valid picture ID, can’t get valid picture ID without a certified copy of his birth certificate.

mclaren - July 22, 2010 | 2:26 am · Link

Here’s another example of our crazy out-of-control “Papers please!” police state, this time from Oregon:

Everyone attempting to obtain a new, replacement or renewal license will not only be required to provide a SSN, but also to present a document that includes the SSN. DMV will verify SSNs with the Social Security Administration database. This database is notoriously rife with errors, including name and birth date discrepancies. A recent review of the SSA’s pilot verification program found an error rate of 9.8 percent for naturalized U.S. citizens.

Even if you’re in the SSA database, if there is any discrepancy with your name or birth date, you will not be able to obtain a license or renewal. Instead, DMV likely will issue a temporary card (with no photograph) and require you to resolve the discrepancies with the SSA. For some, it may be an easy resolution; for others, there may be no way to provide the required documents to the SSA to resolve the problem. If there is no resolution, DMV will not issue a driver license.

We raised another concern that also was ignored: Federal buildings require a person to present photo identification to enter the building, so those who have to go to the SSA and who do not have current photo identification may not be able to enter the building, putting them in a Catch-22.
Non-citizens will need to produce specific federal immigration documents. That requirement (already in place under the Governor’s Executive Order) has already created problems. DMV has turned people away who had legal federal immigration documents but those documents were either not on the DMV approved list or did not look as DMV expected. This is one of the concerns we have had; namely that state agencies do not have the expertise to recognize the many different lawful federal immigration documents available. For example, in April, the ACLU of Oregon agreed to assist a non-US citizen who can legally work in this country but was wrongly dismissed from her job because her green card appeared to have expired. She has begun the naturalization process and as a result, was told by the federal Immigration and Customs Enforcement Agency (ICE) that she does not need to renew her green card. But a local government in Oregon received different information from ICE and terminated her.

In addition to SSN verification, one will have to produce either a certified birth certificate or a U.S. passport (current or no more than 5 years expired) to prove lawful presence in this country and U.S. citizenship. (There are other documents for U.S. citizens born abroad, naturalized citizens, permanent residents or members of federally recognized tribes, but for most it will be birth certificate or passport.) If one’s name has changed since the issuance of these documents, particularly since issuance of a birth certificate, legal documents reflecting those name changes must also be produced (in certified form). This will most affect women who have had name changes from marriage or divorce as well as anyone who has been adopted or gone through any other legal name change.

For many, it may be easy to produce a certified birth certificate, especially those born in this state who already have a certified copy or have the time and financial resources to track down and obtain a new certified copy. But for many, this will be an insurmountable obstacle, particularly those born out of state. It may take significant time to locate and contact the right out-of-state agency that issued the birth certificate and significant cost to actually get a certified copy. (Again, if the state requires picture identification, a person may be in yet another Catch-22 with no photo identification.)

Source: ACLU on Oregon drivers license law SB1080, 2007

You people are deeply stupid. I know American citizens who’ve lived here all their lives who are now caught in this Catch-22.

HeartlandLiberal - July 22, 2010 | 8:04 am · Link

Item one, before I go further, PayPal sucked, and since becoming owned by Ebay, PayPal sucks along with Ebay.

That being said:

John, what sort of PayPal account do you have? Personal or business? That may make a difference.

Under your profile, look on the “Identity Preferences” option. I note on mine that using social security number is an option, but another option was available, providing routing info to a bank account. That is the one I used to verify my identity, and into which proceeds from my hobby sales are transferred.

Note, since, as I said, PayPal sucks in so many ways, and cannot be trusted, I never maintain a balance of more than the $500 minimum my bank requires me to keep in the account to have it free of fees for business use. The same day any payment is transferred to that account from PayPal of Google Checkout, I immediately transfer it to a second bank account that I have not registered with PayPal. I would not trust PayPal not to arbitrarily decide I owed them money and try to transfer it out of my account. In fact, I think there were instances of that a few years ago, when there were lawsuits against PayPal for some of it practices. I just looked, at the website http://www.paypalsucks.com/ is still in existence, you can check it out for details.

Bottom line, I am not getting any demand for soc sec nbr from PayPal, but that is probably because I have a business account registered with a bank account to verify my identity.

However, I think it is insane that they should demand soc sec nbr, and have to wonder if the laws passed as far back as 1975 would not make that demand problematical legally. I mean, even states have moved away from putting soc sec nbr on drivers licenses, for petes sake, as here in Indiana. The state just creates a unique drivers license number.

Zach - July 22, 2010 | 8:55 am · Link

I got kicked out of PayPal and separated from my $8.00 in my account because someone apparently tried to hack my account and I don’t recall the number of a bank account I had seven or eight years ago when I made the account. I routinely get e-mails about someone trying to (and failing) to access my locked account.

Mnemosyne - July 22, 2010 | 11:23 am · Link

@mclaren:

Yes, let’s look at those horrible, onerous, impossible standards for providing your SSN to the state of Oregon, shall we? From the actual state DMV website:

A Social Security Card or other SSA documentation, which may be laminated (metal souvenir cards and photocopies are not acceptable);
A copy of a state or federal tax document;
An employment record containing the SSN;
A military document containing the SSN;
A document from the SSA validating the SSN, such as a benefits letter;
An out-of-state driver license, permit or ID card containing the SSN;
Tribal ID Card containing the SSN;
Medical Benefits Card containing the SSN; or
Any acceptable document submitted as proof of legal presence/identity or residence address containing the SSN.

Oh, and it looks like the ACLU kinda forgot to mention that you can get a driver’s license in Oregon without a SSN as long as you can show you’re not actually eligible for one:

A document issued by the SSA;
A document issued by a Federal agency or Federal court which demonstrates the customer is ineligible for an SSN;
An I-94, CBP I-94, CBP I-94A without the stamp noting “Employment Authorized”; or
IRS Individual Tax Identification Number (ITIN)

So, yes, if you lose every piece of picture ID that you own, have no copy of your birth certificate at home, and have never filed taxes or held a job so there’s no record of you ever having a SSN, you’re probably kind of screwed.

I have a feeling that there aren’t too many American citizens with zero forms of picture ID, no birth certificate, no passport, no paystubs, and no tax records, but I guess you’re one of the lucky ones who just happened to carry every single one of those things with you in your wallet when you lost it.

Badtux - July 22, 2010 | 1:21 pm · Link

@Mnemosyne: You can’t get into federal buildings without showing an official state-issued ID or, if you’re a juvenile, having your parent there to show an official state-issued ID. Things Have Changed since September 11, 2001. Didn’t you get the memo? Security has been tightened to keep unidentified people out of federal buildings, because despite the fact that the 9/11 terrorists had official state-issued ID’s, requiring state-issued ID’s would have stopped them (say wha?!). So… let’s recap. The SSA office is in the federal building. You need your SS card to get an official state-issued ID. You need your official state-issued ID to get into the federal building. But you can’t get your official state-issued ID until you get into the federal building. Furthermore, Form SS-5 Page 2 says you need your official state-issued ID to get a replacement Social Security card, the same Social Security card that you need in order to get your official state-issued ID.

Kafka, anybody?

Oh—financial institutions are required by federal laws to have Social Security numbers on file so that they can issue the 1099’s to narc on how much interest you earned to the IRS. And private businesses like PayPal are not regulated at all insofar as use of the Social Security number, they can ask for it, and you can refuse to provide it, at will. They can also refuse to do business with you. Which is their choice, since they’re a private business, not government… as long as their refusal to do business with you is not based on race or other protected class, there’s no law saying they have to do business with you if you refuse to provide your SSN. Just lettin’ ya know that bit of legal stuff…

– Badtux the Memory Hole Penguin