Isn’t it painfully obvious by now that Apple needs to drop their AT&T exclusivity agreement like Betty dropped Don? It might have been whiskey-fueled nooners and trips to Rome in the beginning, but now it’s nothing but lipstick on the collar and nights away from home.
If the iPhone hadn’t been saddled with such a frustrating, crap network, the early adopters of iPhone 4 (many of whom have been on iPhone since day one) wouldn’t be as obsessed with signal and call quality. I’m not saying that the current dust up about the iPhone’s antenna wouldn’t exist, just that it would be one issue, not an overriding concern.
If iPhone were available on Verizon, Verizon wouldn’t have gotten in bed as readily with Google. Every day a bunch of Verizon customers who would rather have an iPhone buy an Android phone and make a two-year commitment to Google. I’ve never waited in line before for a gadget, and I probably won’t again, but I was so fed up with their mediocre smartphones that I was at the Verizon store on the first day to buy the first decent Android device on their network (the Droid).
I’m almost certain that tomorrow’s press conference won’t be an announcement of an iPhone on Verizon, but it should be.
Bill Rutherford, Princeton Admissions
BETTY! BETTY! NOT BETSY!
Harrumph.
mistermix
@Bill Rutherford, Princeton Admissions: Fixed it. He always calls her “Bets” so I have that on the brain.
Bill Rutherford, Princeton Admissions
OK – sorry for my outburst.
Elizabelle
Agreed, mistermix.
Have been hoping Apple would jettison AT&T, or at least open up some competition.
Then I could have me an iPhone and apps like everyone cool.
(As it is, I don’t even text now. Luddite speaking.)
cleek
screw iPhone.
my new Android-based LG is perfectly sweet.
ok, yeah, i would’ve bought an iPhone, or at least considered one, if Verizon offered it. or maybe not – it’s hard to justify the iPhone’s price, when the LG i got was something like $120.
Steeplejack
I hear you. I am not an Apple fanatic, but I like the iPhone and probably would have bought one if it was available on Verizon (my longtime carrier).
I have been in the upgrade zone for a few months and have pretty much decided on the Droid Incredible. But I wanted to wait and see the new Droid models allegedly coming this month. (I presume that will be in the press conference today.) And the Incredible has been on back-order anyway.
JasonF
Apple almost certainly signed a deal with AT&T to give AT&T exclusive rights to the iPhone for X years and will undoubtedly get sued for $Y kajillion dollars if they attempt to break that contract.
But you can bet on Year X + 1 day, we will see an announcement that the Verizon iPhone, the T-Mobile iPhone, and the Sprint iPhone are on their way.
mantis
I’m almost certain that tomorrow’s press conference won’t be an announcement of an iPhone on Verizon, but it should be.
I’m thinking the press conference won’t even be an announcement that they’re doing something about the problem. It will probably be more like “Sorry your iPhones don’t work when you’re performing specialized tasks like ‘holding’ them with your ‘hands,’ but we’re going to make it all better by offering you a 30% discount on an iPod Nano!”
Jay in Oregon
Techincally speaking, the only carrier that Apple could open the iPhone up to without serious redesign work would be T-Mobile; the iPhone is a GSM phone, and T-Mobile is a GSM network.
I’m not saying that Apple can’t design a CDMA phone, but R&D wise it’d probably be easier to tweak their existing GSM phones to work with a second carrier. Hell, one of my co-workers has a (jailbroken) iPhone and is on T-Mobile.
Given that unlocked iPhones will soon be available in Canada, I’m increasingly tempted to make a run for the border…
To me, it seems like a no-brainer:
1) Apple could sell more phones to people who cannot or will not switch to AT&T
2) If people jump ship to other carriers, it will take the strain off of AT&T’s data network
The only catch is that certain iPhone features (visual voicemail, for example) require support on the carrier side.
daveNYC
I can understand the exclusive agreement, it gave Apple a pile more cash, and gave AT&T a sexy new toy. What I can’t understand is why the agreement was for so long. The agreement should have been for two years, max. The fact that it’s so long means that Apple can’t do the necessary adjustments to counter Android’s growth.
Penny wise, pound foolish.
elmo
Agreed and agreed. I was in the market for my first smartphone this spring, and I’ve been locked into Verizon and happy since 2003. No way I’m changing — I live in the rural boonies, and my signal is great.
I didn’t get a Droid, tho — Palm Pre was having a fire sale, so I got that.
Jay in Oregon
@JasonF:
They have a 5-year exclusivity contract with AT&T; that is projected to end in 2012.
Joel
I grabbed an iPhone a few years back (the 3G) and have been pretty satisfied with it, although the dropped calls and semi-connections (seems like the phone rings on the other side, but not on mine) are aggravating. I pretty much stopped using the apps with the exception of Yelp, maps, Pandora, and weather. Pretty sure I can get those plus browsing capabilities on another smartphone.
mistermix
@Steeplejack: The Droid X is out today, I think it’s comparable to the Incredible.
@cleek: I figure I’m paying out the ass for a smartphone plan anyway so I’ll buy the best phone (within reason).
@Jay in Oregon: I’ll eat my keyboard if Apple doesn’t have a CDMA iPhone in the labs.
Morbo
Obligatory meme video.
sparky
hmmm…battle of everyone’s self-identified corporations.
i’m far from in love with AT&T but i loathe Verizon, and they are certainly scam artists compared with, say, AT&T–bogus charges, locked features, etc. where i live the AT&T coverage is better than Verizon. my preferred carrier is T-Mobile, but had to give them up as they apparently keep their prices down by keeping their network to third-tier.
i do find it interesting that people still believe Verizon is ipso facto better, given stories like this.*
*it’s fine with me if you tell me this is all wrong.
dan
I thought Betty dropped Reggie. To go out with Archie.
oliver's Neck
@Jay in Oregon:
Much like they had an intel version of OS X in the works long before they switched (or seriously decided to switch) processors, chances are that Apple already has a CDMA version of the iphone in their labs.
EDIT: Ah, mistermix beat me to it.
JasonF
BTW, here’s my iPhone/AT&T anecdote:
I have a Blackberry Curve 8300 provided by my work and it does the job so I don’t bother to pay for my own separate phone. But we’re on AT&T and I’ve been less than satisfied with my reception at times.
So a couple of months ago, my wife — who is on Verizon — decided it was finally time to trade in her circa 2001 LG flip-phone. She decided she wanted an iPhone (largely because she is not particularly tech savvy and iPhones get all the press, so that’s what she knew). But after seeing what my AT&T reception was like, she decided she didn’t want to switch to AT&T, so wound up re-upping with Verizon (she’s very happy with her Droid Increidble, by the way, and I’m extraordinarily jealous).
cleek
OT: holy crap, someone has told the truth on MSNBC.com !
there’s a red headline banner up right now that says:
they actually mentioned the GOP’s obstruction!
if things keep up like this, i might have to start having hope for this country’s future. gulp!
mantis
@mistermix:
I’ll eat my keyboard if Apple doesn’t have a CDMA iPhone in the labs.
Apple’s lawyers are on their way to your house.
trollhattan
I’ve decided Apple doesn’t need another nickel from me, so they’re welcome to continue the crappy customer service-fake limited supply business model WRT the iphone (or pad or….).
Wife.gov got an Android HTC and it’s pretty sweet, other than ghoulish battery consumption. But lo, what’s this? A customer-swappable battery?!? Zounds, if Apple ever steals this idea. (Wait, what am I saying? It’s part of the bidnez model–a feature, not a bug.)
andrew
The iPhone will not come to Verizon until Verizon as ubiquitous 4G coverage. On Verizon’s current 3G implementation, you can not make a phone call and access cellular data at the same time. This is unacceptable to Apple. This is going to be late 2011 at the latest.
Plus, I would argue that AT&T’s network isn’t really the problem. I have a Nexus One on AT&T’s network, and have never had a dropped call.
Steeplejack
@mistermix:
Yeah, I am so out of it. I did a Google search a little while ago and discovered that the Droid X is shipping today but was announced on June 23. But I swear I did a search a week or so ago and found nothing. I guess it was longer than that. It’s so hard to keep up. Oops, gotta go tell those kids to get off my lawn.
flounder
Here in flyover country there is basically no AT&T signal to chase. It is Verizon or nothing.
Comrade Sock Puppet of the Great Satan
AT&T is OK where I live (it’s crap when you get away from the coasts though). But I travel enough outside the US that goign with a CDMA phone isn’t attractive.
However, AT&T have successfully made that no longer an advantage by preventing official unlocking of iphones: other cellphones can be unlocked.
Has the devteam released a hack to allow the unlocking of iphones running iOS 4 yet?
Rosalita
@cleek:
I’ve heard that, from the guy working in the Verizon store as a matter of fact…I was looking at another Motorola and he showed us the LG…now I just need to wait until it’s time for my upgrade
Kristine
I have an iPad, a MacBook, and an older iBook. Made the switch from PC to Mac about 6 years ago, and don’t regret it. But I was an AT&T customer for years until they burned me–long story–and I swore never again. It’s bad enough that my current cellphone is a Cingular/AT&T Razr, but I’m on a PayGo plan. I spend $100 at the beginning of the year, roll over any unused minutes, and I’m good until the following January. No, I don;t use my phone that much.
I would buy an iPad w/ 4G if I could go with a service other than AT&T. I would not change to an iPhone unless I could sign with a different carrier or better yet, get a pay as i go plan. I hate signing a contract for defined minutes I will never use.
mantis
@sparky:
I’m far from in love with AT&T but i loathe Verizon, and they are certainly scam artists compared with, say, AT&T—bogus charges, locked features, etc. where i live the AT&T coverage is better than Verizon. my preferred carrier is T-Mobile, but had to give them up as they apparently keep their prices down by keeping their network to third-tier.
In fairness, Verizon did a 180 with the Droid. I was a customer years ago, but dumped them for the reasons you state: crippled hardware, bullshit charges, etc. When the Droid was announced it was pretty much the exact phone I was looking for, but dammit, it was on Verizon! But lo and behold, they stuck to their promise and released a genuine Google phone with zero crippled features, and I’ve been paying exactly what I expected to pay since I bought the thing.
And the reception, at least where I live (Chicago), is much better on Verizon than it was when I was on At&t.
Darius
@cleek: Don’t worry; Politico’s already got an article up explaining how the Dems passing financial reform is still excellent news for Republicans.
On topic – Anyone got any reviews of the Droid X yet? I’m thinking about getting one.
Chinn Romney
@daveNYC:
It was my understanding that Apple wanted complete control of the design and only one carrier would agree to that. So I think you’re overestimating how much leverage Apple really had in the deal.
edmund dantes
All I know is that people should be wary and have their eyes wide open as to what they are getting themselves into. We’ve already beginning to see the authoritarian and hubris creep showing on Apple again with Jobs response on the Antennae issue.
It’ll be interesting to see what effect this has on Apple’s Image. There will always be those that are part of the cult (just like with Windows), but I wonder if you will see a weakening as Google (and others) produce phones that are just as good with a lot better access and less controlfreak nature.
Thomas
It’s hard to say Apple screwed up when their sales are so good, but I agree –they screwed up. AT&T exclusivity lost them a massive amount of users, and gave Google enough time to catch up with (and in some features, surpass) iOS. I have always wanted an iPhone, but the amount of time I spend in NYC, where AT&T has always had horrible 3g, ruled out a switch from Verizon. I’ve been with Verizon for about ten years, now, and I can truthfully say that I have never had a dropped call (barring the occasional “I’m getting into an elevator, so I may lose you” incident).
Comrade Mary
I’ve been going through AGONIES trying to get an iPhone in Canada. My lovely sister offered to buy me the phone itself and let me get a contract of my choosing with Rogers or anyone else who could offer me a deal. Wireless charges in Canada SUCK and to add insult to injury, our contracts run for three years, not two.
I just negotiated hard with Rogers and finally got the best deal for about $20 less than my current month-to-month rates, but when I called back the other day to get a 32Gb 3GS (which I had been told I could get for $149 with a contract), I was told that there were none available, that Apple had yanked all but the 8Gb. Some doofus at a store tried to tell me that the other phones were pulled because no one was buying them because they were SO EXCITED about iPhone 4. Yeah. Right.
However, the bait and switch has worked on me. My sister will get me the iPhone 4 when it comes out in a few weeks (no prices or dates yet given to us) and I’ll hold onto that plan. Buying unlocked would still mean either paying ridiculous rates for month to month (and paying about the same amount overall after three years) or committing to a company for three years anyway without getting the discount price. I’ve gotten a lot of use out of a cheap and serviceable Blackberry that was already out of date when I got it three years ago, so I can hold on to a decent phone for another three years again.
Bobby Thomson
On the East Coast, AT&T is as good as any other network, if not superior. Not because AT&T is that great, but because they bought Cingular’s network, which was outstanding.
And then, for reasons eluding all sentient beings, they went with the AT&T brand name instead of Cingular’s.
Agoraphobic Kleptomaniac
I ran from ATT when my contract was up. I was treated so poorly, I got the feeling that my patronage from them wasn’t important.
My wife lost her phone for a week, and every single employee I talked to tried to upsell me a phone rather than give me a replacement SIM card *for an ATT phone I had in my hand*. Every time I asked for a new SIM card, they came up with some excuse about not having any, or how it wouldn’t work in my phone (after showing them the ATT sim card I had just pulled out of the phone, and it looked exactly like the sim card sitting on their desk).
That along with their overpriced minutes and scheming to nickle and dime me to death.
I jumped to sprint and have gotten 1) better coverage 2) Better phone 3) and MUUUUUCH cheaper (2 months for the price of one at ATT, for more features!)
Bobby Thomson
@sparky: No, I’m with you. My experience is that Verizon sucks.
arguingwithsignposts
Rumor has it that the next gen iPod Touch will be more like the iPhone 4. I could go for that. I will not leave Verizon for AT&T, no matter how cool the phone. Everyone I know who has an iPhone says the cell service sucks. Every. Single. One.
ETA: per sparky’s comment, I’ve never had a problem with Verizon, and everyone I know is already on Verizon (mom, gf, kids, etc.), so I can do without paying AT&T extra minutes. and I’ve heard negative coverage stories about AT&T from NYC, so it’s not great on the coasts all the time.
mistermix
@andrew:
I’d say that’s Apple’s excuse. Depending on your usage patterns, you might or might not care about this. When I’m talking on the phone, I’m not also reading email or browsing the web.
Never? Ever? I mean, even mighty Verizon drops a call on occasion.
zzyzx
People who go on and on about the flawed iPhone are IMO just the flip side of people who insist that Apple has no problems.
I’ve owned an iPhone 4 since the day they came out. It’s done what I want it to so I’m happy. Then again I used it as a text messaging and internet surfing device so YMMV.
namekarB
Why are you against free markets? This is classic American capitalism. Beaucoup competition. That is why we have two telecoms, two banks, two pharmaceuticals, etc. You need to bone up on American style free markets.
Sheesh
Dave Fud
I’m going to buy a Samsung Galaxy S next week. What won me over was the DLNA compatibility and the promise to upgrade to Android 2.2.
Sentient Puddle
@Darius:
What I’ve been hearing of it is that it’s the best Android phone out there.
And yes, you’ve probably heard that said about a lot of phones over the past year. But it appears the hardware really is moving that fast.
ETA: Forgot to mention that if it’s your thing, you might want to know that the Droid X has a locked bootloader. It doesn’t make a damn bit of difference to someone like me, but if you want to load it with custom ROMs, you can’t for the time being.
Third Eye Open
Call me when they start producing one of these.
The only question I have is whether you can still use it if you’re roaming without a Nation-wide plan.
Jay in Oregon
I’m not saying Apple can’t make a CDMA phone, or doesn’t have one in the works; I’m just saying that tweaking their GSM phone for T-Mobile seems like less work.
superking
I think the exclusive deal makes sense, even long term. They’ll keep it until AT&T can’t do something Apple wants to do. Poor service is acceptable if AT&T is upgrading constantly to allow improved tech.
The reason the deal makes sense is because Macs have for a while now been designed as premium products. When you buy that MacBook or iPad, you’re buying a highly engineered and exquisitely designed piece of machinery. (Or at least that’s what they want you to believe. I am not an expert and can offer no opinion.)
Having an exclusive carrier is kind of the same thing as having a premium product. If everyone can have an iPhone, it won’t be such a big deal.
randiego
I have an iPhone and it’s a great device. However, being a phone isn’t one of it’s strong features. I’ve always had great service, no dropped calls, no strange connection issues – until I went to iPhone.
It doesn’t matter what phase of telecom you work in, people always blame the network first, because they simply don’t understand that the device you’re interfacing with can easily be a bottleneck to the network. (see Windows PCs on a corporate LAN).
The mere saturation of AT&Ts network by the avalanche of iPhone users is a big issue that they are clearly struggling with. If you think that wouldn’t happen to Verizon or anyone else, you’re kidding yourself.
Southern Beale
I was told they are getting ready to sign a deal with Verizon … but what do I know …
Southern Beale
… adding, I was told this by someone at Merrill Lynch and as we all know these Wall Streeters don’t know crap …
Sentient Puddle
@Southern Beale: It seems like we hear this rumor every year, and every time it comes with a “This time with a highly-placed anonymous source at Apple!” disclaimer, stopping just short of acknowledging that it’s become a yearly ritual.
So yeah, until you hear it come from Steve Jobs’ lips, don’t pay attention to the Verizon rumors.
Toast
And that would be a good thing why? Google’s Android OS is every bit as good as the iOS (or whatever Apple calls it) and Google allows open development, unlike the control freaks at Apple. I’m thrilled that Apple kept up their exclusivity agreement with AT&T long enough to spur a competitor to finally produce a worthy rival to the iPhone.
For years there was no real competition in the (Truly) SmartPhone market. You had an iPhone (great device) a BlackBerry (far more limited – tied to BlackBerry’s service) or some piece of shit running Palm or (save us all) Windows Mobile. Now that Android has truly arrived, that’s no longer the case, and Steve Jobs doesn’t have us all by the reproductive organs. That’s cause to rejoice.
andrew
@mistermix
There is one deadzone on my bus ride home. The bus goes down a giant hill, and nears the coast of Lake Washington, before turning to go back to the highway. Every single carrier looses a signal at the bottom of that hill. On my old phone I dropped a call a few times when passing through that dead zone. I quickly learned not to make calls when there.
zzyzx
And I am rooting for a verizon iPhone for precisely the reason that it would free up AT&T’s network.
Brachiator
This is slightly nuts. I was watching an episode of MacBreak Weekly in which one of the geeks disdainfully noted that the iPhone wasn’t really the best smartphone to use if you wanted to make phone calls, but had all kinds of other “cool” features.
In another episode, the geeks were all hot to show the adapters and chargers that they lugged around with them to keep their smartphones energized.
In my little corner of the universe, a telephone first of all has got to be a good goddam telephone. And it’s got to get me through a full day with the typical use that I would want to put it through.
Telephone companies and smartphone manufacturers have to make the devices work. I can understand some stumbles along the way, but the details of how they work this stuff out doesn’t matter as much as their understanding the general principle that they are first of all making telephones here, not pocket computers.
Mr. Poppinfresh
I dropped my iPhone for a Nexus One, and consider it a big upgrade rather than a nearly-good-as.
If you’re looking for an unlocked phone that will work on any network, I’d advise picking up a Nexus One from the Google store directly- it really is that good.
toujoursdan
As a T-Mobile subscriber, I can only look at these phones from afar, but it’s the only carrier I like. Great coverage in NYC. Cheap. No hidden or surprise charges. Wonderful customer service.
So I make due with an 64GB iPod touch and my Blackberry Curve.
zzyzx
@Brachiator:
That’s a pretty limited corner. I hardly ever talk on the phone but I find myself wanting to know random facts all the time.
South of I-10
Random question. I have an iPhone 3G, which I love. Since upgrading to my 3G to iOS4, it is ridiculously slow. Has anyone else had this problem? I am eligible for an upgrade with AT&T, but with all the talk of reception problems, I am hesitant to upgrade to iPhone 4.
Jules
I live in the middle of Arkansas and never have the AT&T issues I read about, BUT they bought they bought the Cingular network here so that might be why.
Mike E
@Dave Fud: Wow, the video quality is stunning. Thanks for the tip!
Toast
@Brachiator:
False. Pocket computers are exactly what they’re making. Spend a week using a Droid or an iPhone and you’ll stop thinking about it as a phone and embrace it for what it is: A handheld computer (palmtop?) that happens to make phone calls.
merrinc
@Jay in Oregon:
Really? Damn. I had heard 2011 and was hoping iPhone would be available through Verizon in January, just in time for my birthday. We are also long time Verizon subscribers (spouse gets a discount through work) so I am trying to stick it out with my Blackberry until the AT&T stranglehold is broken.
I am a hardcore Mac addict and not interested in the Droid though friends who have one seem quite satisfied.
Chad N Freude
@cleek: Momentary glitch. Probably an intern. They will have an apology up any minute now.
terry chay
Apple probably didn’t anticipate how quickly competitors (really the Android) would reach the market.
Sentient Puddle
@Toast:
Not that I disagree with the pocket computer assessment, but we still think of these as phones. Partly because that’s what they started as, but mostly because we don’t want to have to carry around a dedicated device for phone calls (especially when smart phones were supposed to be consolidating devices).
Lawnguylander
@andrew:
I don’t know if it’s an excuse like mistermix said, I see it as a part of their advertising strategy and it would be tough for them to say, “oh nevermind what we said about how awesome it is to be able to surf the web and make phone calls at the same time.” I didn’t even know that I couldn’t do both on my Verizon Blackberry at the same time until an AT&T commercial told me so some time back. Since then I’ve had one occasion where it would have come in handy to be able to do both simultaneously. Is there really a large class of users for whom this is important? As for coverage, on my part of Long Island, about 20 miles outside Manhattan, Verizon is the only reliable network so there’s a number of people I know who have iphones for the cool stuff and have a simple Verizon phone for when they really need to make a call. Fuck that.
Comrade Kevin
The reason why the iPhone is exclusively on AT&T is because AT&T demanded it, in exchange for it being allowed on their network. Apple shopped the phone to other carriers, who all told them to take a hike.
Bitching at Apple about this is stupid.
Mark
I think most device manufacturers wish they could screw up like Apple. The iPod/iPhone development process appears to involve releasing a thoroughly sup-obtimal product into the market, selling it with 400% margins, and gradually improving it during the brief period of time before you release another suboptimal product.
Back when I started in the cellular industry, Sony put out a pos product and it killed their entire business in North America.
Robert Sneddon
@Brachiator:
Apple’s phones are computers first and phones second, basically. They won’t work as phones if the computer isn’t running hard — for example the display is the keyboard and it needs the touch sensitivity system to decode finger touches, all of which consumes significant amounts of battery power. Most other manufacturers such as Nokia build phones with added smartphone/computer functionality. There’s no need to run a CPU flat out at 1GHz and suck a lot of battery power to detect a keypress if it’s a real physical keyswitch instead.
The relentless Apple-designer drive for thin’n’slim also cuts into power storage due to battery restrictions; if you want a smartphone with a good operating life between charges then get a fat soapbar model as it will have a fat battery inside. You may even be able to fit an extra-life battery if you don’t mind the extra bulk.
Trevor B
Out here in the west, ATT has zero service, you cant even get an ATT phone in Montana. Smaller companies have taken over and they sell jailbroken iphones, but being so small their service is limited to larger cities. Verizon has a monopoly out here, but it works out because their service areas are so large. I just wish I could get a droid without a service plan.
Ohmmade
This is a fairly stupid argument. Noone is forcing you to wait in a line. Just wait a couple weeks it’s not like the phones expire like milk or somthing.
Jailbreak/unlock has been around since almost day one. I’ve been using t-mobile for two years and pay 1/2 the price as AT&T iPhone users. This argument is the same as the “one button mouse” argument. I’ve had 5 button mouses since 1997.
Generally these types of arguments are made by people who don’t know what the he’ll they’re talking about.
Jon
Remember these letters: “LTE.” This is the 4G standard that Verizon is deploying, and it is also the same standard that AT&T is deploying on a slightly more delayed schedule (fat shocker there).
Only when LTE is sufficiently deployed that you don’t need regular GSM as the backup will you get the iPhone on Verizon. Otherwise, Apple has to build a completely different phone for one carrier in one country – whereas the current iPhone can be sold pretty much anywhere in the world without changing a thing.
It is alleged that Apple went to Verizon first, but VZW wanted to do the same thing they did with all their other phones – mandatory apps, certain features locked out, customized UI – and Jobs told them to go S in their bonnet and tie it tight. Make no mistake, the reason things like the Droid line on VZW are shipping largely unencumbered is because of the market pressure of an iPhone that isn’t laden down with AT&T crapware; people now expect to get a “clean” phone when they throw down $300.
CalD
Funny thing. I’m on AT&T and I’m waiting for a Droid. Guess the grass is always greener.
BubbaDave
@South of I-10:
Yeah, I’ve seen it– some applications are slow, but not all. In a couple of cases resetting the phone and restoring from backup made it speedy again, in one case the user decided to downgrade back to iOS3.1
Corpsicle
One of the big reasons Apple went with AT&T is that Verizon wanted control over the iPhone. They wanted their logo all over it, and their own software overlay on top. Anyone who has had the painful experience of using Verizon’s software can understand what a freakin disaster that would have been.
Roger Moore
@Toast:
I think Brachiator has more of a point than you’re letting on. Yes, a smartphone is really a palmtop computer with a network connection, but the complaints he’s making point as much to its function as a palmtop as they do to its function as a phone. If you can’t provide reliable service and a decent battery life, it’s not going to function well as a phone or a palmtop. The only place where the two functions really conflict is in form factor; they typical palmtop slab form factor isn’t so good good as a phone.
BubbaDave
@andrew:
It’s very location-dependent. In DeLand, Florida (where my grandmother’s house is) I’ve never had a dropped call. In Coppell, a wealthy suburb of Dallas, I have dropped calls all the time, often while my iPhone is showing 5 bars. I think it’s a matter of how overloaded the network is rather than a pure signal-strength issue.
peej
I’m a new iPhone user (got one of the iPhone 4). I didn’t switch carriers so I’m used to the ATT issues, and I don’t usually have reception problems. The only time I did was when I lived practically next to the cell tower (I think the signals just bounced over the apartment complex).
I’m one of those people who use it as a phone last, and a cool gadget for everything else first. If they had made an ipod touch that included everything except for the phone, I would have gone for that and kept my old phone.
BubbaDave
@Roger Moore:
Ironically, a lousy phone connection can still be a fine Internet connection. Packet-based communication is a lot more tolerant of latency and brief outages (dropped packets) than voice is.
rapido
@darius
gizmodo has a somewhat scathing review of the droid x today
burnspbesq
@mistermix:
“I’ll eat my keyboard if Apple doesn’t have a CDMA iPhone in the labs.”
Here are a bottle of the hottest Vietnamese fish sauce I could find and a six-pack of Pilsner Urquell. They should help you choke down that keyboard.
There is no reason for Apple to do anything with Verizon so long as Verizon gives the finger to the entire world by sticking with CDMA. Why does it make sense for Apple to fuck up it’s supply chain, burden it’s manufacturing partners, and (worst of all from Jobs’ perspective), sell its soul to Qualcomm to have a version of the iPhone that it can only sell in one country?
AT&T may suck, but I can walk off a plane pretty much anywhere in the world and my iPhone will find a signal. CDMA phones are expensive doorstops in most of the world. If you travel internationally for work, Verizon is just irrelevant.
Fred Fnord
Sadly, this isn’t something they can do unilaterally. Well, without being sued into oblivion. A contract is a contract.
And incidentally, Jobs announced that they had wanted to partner with Verizon, but Verizon basically told them, ‘sure, we’ll have your phone on our network, but we aren’t willing to give you any special treatment.’
Which not only meant Verizon cobranding the hell out of the iPhone, but also meant no visual voicemail, and the lack of at least a couple of other features that I’m unable to recall off the top of my head. And no marketing push on the part of Verizon at all, and the same subsidies as normal phone manufacturers get. Basically, Verizon would have taken the iPhone if it had been handed to them on a silver platter, and was willing to make enormous amounts of money on it, but simply had no interest in actually working with Apple. AT&T was willing to help Apple make it as successful as it could be. Verizon wasn’t.
It’s pretty unusual for a CEO (even Jobs) to call out a company that they tried to work with like that, but it’s understandable to me. Verizon was stupid, and Apple was forced into working with AT&T. It really is that simple.
Interestingly, I’ve actually been pretty happy with my experiences with AT&T, and I live in San Francisco. Unfortunately, my workplace is in a former-unreinforced-masonry building with extremely thick brick walls and steel beams throughout, which means that everybody’s cell reception sucks here. Mine was unusually bad, but when I called AT&T, they went through the local cells, made sure everything was operating reasonably, which they were. Then they sent me to get my SIM card replaced, which didn’t help. Then they suggested I take the phone to an Apple store. I did so, and they discovered that the antenna had come detached from the motherboard. Since I had that fixed, I’ve had remarkably few problems. (Exactly two dropped calls, in the six weeks since that was fixed.)
Exclusivity is going away soon, and I’ll be glad, but given the marketing and network changes AT&T was willing to do for Apple, it’s hard for me to say they made the wrong choice.
—fred
randiego
this
Amanda in the South Bay
@South of I-10:
Yeah, people upgrading 3G iPhones (as well as 2G and 3G iPod Touches) has been a major snafu. I brought this up to Martin a few weeks ago on here, and he mentioned…I forgot exactly, never having owned an Apple product I wasn’t quite sure what the solution was.
The 3GS seems to run fine on iOS4, but everything else…which is sorta why I’ve been putting off buying a Touch 3G. The Touches at the Apple Store come pre-loaded with iOS4, and I’m a little hesitant about buying one.
Brachiator
@Toast:
Steve Jobs should know better than that. And the point is that it’s not enough that the iPhone or Droid just “happens” to make phone calls. It has to work well as a phone device no matter what else it does.
I bought a very cheap cellphone because I commute, am out of the office a lot or get home late, but needed my family to be able to get in touch with me as quickly as possible because I needed to keep up with the status of a critically ill family member. Google Voice also came to my rescue here because I could have the cellphone ring even if my home or office number were to be called.
Aside from email, there is really no other fancy feature that would matter to me. But reliable phone service was, and still is, essential.
@Robert Sneddon:
Then, Apple may have a problem. With more people abandoning land lines and using cellphones as their only phone, it is absurd to pack them with other features but neglect their primary purpose.
Here’s the irony. With the iPad, Jobs correctly slapped down people who insisted that the device had to be a tablet laptop and who refuse to see it as anything other than a crippled PC.
A troubling note is that I get the impression that some fanboys and girls who write about Apple products may have known about the potential problems, but either minimized them because they were so dazzled by other iPhone features, or they didn’t do a good enough job in evaluating the unit as a phone. I watched one guy admit that he rarely touches the phone because he either puts it in his pocket or in a dock in his car and so he just never considered how the thing worked if you held it in your hand.
And one bottom line is that Consumer Reports, which still has considerable clout in the non-geek universe, has delivered a blow to Apple because they concluded that they could not recommend the iPhone 4 specifically because of its problems as a phone.
They aren’t buying the argument that the iPhone is only incidentally a phone, and neither are many potential customers.
randiego
Yes, my 3GS runs fine on iOS 4, but I’ve heard of issues on the 3G upgrade.
Joseph Nobles
@toujoursdan: I just upgraded on T-Mobile to the MyTouch slide 3G with Android. I love it a lot, but then again, I had a very cheap phone and plan last go-around.
Amanda in the South Bay
@Toast:
Which is exactly why I want an iPod Touch. Its the ultimate taking/waiting for public transportation device.
I’m just paranoid that iOS4 won’t run well on the 3G Touches hardware. And I don’t want to shell out $$$$ for the rumoured 4G Touch in Sep. I just want a 3G Touch with 3.1 or whatever.
p.a.
I have heard this also- by the end of 2010 (and I’m a Vz employee). Interestingly, 1 hour ago I completed the online ‘Code of Business Conduct’ course and can be fired for this insignificant little blog comment!
BeccaM
I got myself an HTC Droid Incredible with Verizon just last week — and am very, very happy with it.
We also have an AT&T pre-paid SIM, which we’d been using in the unlocked phones we brought back from India, but the coverage has always been really awful, especially here in New Mexico.
Before 2006, when we were in California, we were on Verizon and hated them. Expensive plans, no innovation, and they nailed us for the full early-termination when leaving the country. Why? Because we still had a U.S. mailing address (well, duh — we were traveling for 3 years, not emigrating).
I thought about the iPhone…but too many of our friends have them and have complained about the coverage. I also object personally to the “can’t replace or upgrade battery or memory” issue. Plus the dictatorial iPhone app store.
Anyway, the Droid Incredible was clearly the perfect phone for my needs and desires, and its tight integration with Google services (voice, maps, navigation, search, GPS, Goggles, My Tracks, and NightSky) have impressed me greatly. My non-gadget fiend spouse doesn’t even care about having a cell phone, other than exactly as such, and she’s a little jealous of my HTC.
I’ve also done side-by-side tests of our AT&T SIM card in various unlocked phones (we have 3 of them) against the Verizon HTC Incredible. Hands down, in the greater Albuquerque metropolitan area — including the Sandia Mountain wilderness reserve nearby — Verizon has far, far better coverage.
Gunner Billy K
So I guess Apple should just break the contract they signed? Makes perfect sense.
There are plenty of sites I can read ignorant anti-apple screeds. I wish this weren’t one of them. Stick to politics, mistermix, where you’re a comfy 5 or 6/10. On tech, you’re just an idiot.
Gunner Billy K
@BeccaM:
Nice talking points. Are you from Verizon or Gizmodo?
Mr. Poppinfresh
Oh, what an adorable troll!
Sentient Puddle
@Gunner Billy K: I love Apple as much as the next guy, but this makes you look like a moronic fanboy.
suzanne
@sparky: I’m with ya here. My Verizon contract expired in January of this year (I’d had Verizon for four years at that point). About two months before that, my previously perfect-all-the-time reception went to absolute shit. I couldn’t make or keep a call anywhere. Husband and I called Verizon three times, and finally on the third call they admitted that there had been some major disturbance to the network (though they wouldn’t specify what it was) in our area, and that it was “unknown” when it would ever be fixed. We live in the fifth-biggest metro area in the country, for fuck’s sake.
So when the contract was up, we jumped ship to AT&T and iPhone-d ourselves. In seven months, I’ve lost two calls, one in an elevator and one in a tunnel. Other than that, my service has been perfect. And AT&T has been much better about giving us the educator/student discounts that Verizon also offered but still mysteriously never got applied to our bill. Fuck Verizon.
Allan
There is a class action lawsuit now underway contending that the Apple-AT&T exclusivity deal unfairly limits customer choice.
South of I-10
@Amanda in the South Bay: Everyone I know with a 3GS has not had a problem. My 3G was so speedy before, how am I supposed to keep up with my 17 Words with Friends games if they take forever to load? :)
Comrade Luke
For those of you using Android-based phones: do they work with iTunes, ie do they sync with your music & podcasts?
My understanding was that at least in the early versions the music integration was a hack at best. Has it improved at all?
Comrade Luke
For those of you using Android-based phones: do they work with iTunes, ie do they sync with your music & podcasts?
My understanding was that at least in the early versions the music integration was a hack at best. Has it improved at all?
Comrade Luke
I don’t understand why all of my posts are duplicated. I only hit Submit once…
burnspbesq
@Brachiator:
“I watched one guy admit that he rarely touches the phone because he either puts it in his pocket or in a dock in his car and so he just never considered how the thing worked if you held it in your hand.”
That guy could be me, and he’s the rule, not the exception. My phone pairs with the hands-free setup in my car as soon as I turn on the ignition, and there is a pickup/hangup button built into the steering wheel, so the only time I touch the phone in the car is to dial a number that isn’t stored. Similarly, I use a Bluetooth headset when I am walking around with the phone in my pocket.
Sentient Puddle
@Comrade Luke: I don’t use my phone as a portable music player, but from my understanding, you can drop the music files anywhere and it will access them just fine. That should make it easier than iTunes, if I’m right.
I’ll see if I got some music files on my work computer I can test this with and report back…
Sentient Puddle
@Sentient Puddle: Yep, it was pretty much as I described. Mount the phone to your drive, drop the files wherever (I created a new folder), and when you open the music app, it automatically detected the songs. Easy stuff.
James F. Elliott
@Bobby Thomson: Other way ’round: Cingular bought Pacific Bell and then AT&T and stuck with the latter’s name.
brendancalling
@mistermix: GAAAAAAAAAAH!!!!!!!!!
DUDE! not everyone has cable, and not all of us are up-to-date with the most recent episodes of “Mad Men” yet. My lady and I are just starting season 2.
You just dropped a massive spoiler on me. And now i’m almost certainly gonna drop it on her.
UGH.
arguingwithsignposts
@Fred Fnord:
Unless it’s called a pension.
BeccaM
@Gunner Billy K:
Neither. Just a regular person. You think a Verizon rep would bitch about prior poor customer service?
Better to refute my points than to attack my legitimacy as someone with a valid opinion.
BeccaM
@Comrade Luke:
Supposedly iTunes (non-DRM content only) syncing and streaming will be supported in Frodo (Android 2.2) due out later this summer or autumn.
Sentient Puddle
@BeccaM:
I propose that we change it to that.
el donaldo
Palm Pre. Palm’s WebOS is right now where iPhones and Android phones will be in a couple years. Though I wouldn’t mind the bigger screen of the Evo or Incredible, I would have to give up too much to get it. I think the best comparison between Palm and Apple is thinking of WebOS to the iOS as being like Firefox was to Internet Explorer five or six years ago.
Nethead Jay
@BubbaDave: This is something I’ve been hearing too on a board where a lot of network guys and other tech types hang out.
BTW, since you mention Coppell, you from around there? Acquaintance of mine who lives near there sent me a crazy story about the mayor.
Brachiator
@burnspbesq:
RE: “I watched one guy admit that he rarely touches the phone because he either puts it in his pocket or in a dock in his car and so he just never considered how the thing worked if you held it in your hand.”
Makes sense. The only problem is that this is not good if your job is to review the product. There, you have to consider a wider range of uses.
Also, there have been some complaints about proximity issues and the iPhone, i.e., reports that when people hold it up to their ears, some functions are sometimes activated in error instead of simply letting the person talk. Again, I suppose if you are using Bluetooth or sitting the phone in a car dock, you never see the problem.
By the way, even though I notice more Bluetooth use by fellow commuters, the majority of people use their hands to hold the phone. I am always somewhat amazed at the people who just need to talk on the phone, and who chat away nonstop during the entire long commute.
Dave Fud
@BeccaM: Froyo, not the hobbit.
randiego
This is not correct. SBC (Southwestern Bell) bought Cingular, Pacific Bell, and AT&T (and a bunch of other stuff).
They kept the AT&T brand to cover the whole enchilada.
kilo
I can’t believe nobody’s posted this yet: xtra normal robots on iPhone vs. Andriod
mclaren
You’re complaining about America’s shitty telecommunications infrastructure — but that’s just the side effect of America’s shitty digital infrastructure, which in turn is merely the result of America’s shitty infrastructure as a whole.
At the current rate of collapse and degeneration, be thankful you still get reliable electricity and running water. At the rate America’s infrastructure is decaying, you won’t in a few years.
tkogrumpy
@mclaren: I’m with this guy. Boysngirls it’s just a phone for god sake. I’m glad I don’t have a lawn to tell you to get off of.
baldheadeddork
No one is talking about the money, and the Apple/AT&T story is about nothing else.
Both companies have put themselves in positions where they can’t afford allowing anyone else to have the iPhone. All of AT&T’s growth in the cellular business over the last three years has come from the iPhone. Take it away and they lose market share and revenues since 2007.
But the impact of the iPhone on AT&T goes beyond the cellular business. You can make a strong case that the iPhone is AT&T’s only success over the last three years. U-Verse is years away from earning back AT&T’s infrastructure investments, their DSL has lost market share, and they’re still saddled with POTL business. Take away the iPhone for the last three years and AT&T as a whole company would look a lot like Sprint, another company with spotty high speed coverage and costs from horrible past deals weighing down its books.
And that gets to why the $100 million or so AT&T pays annually to Apple to have exclusive rights on the iPhone is a bargain. The stock price for all telcos has fallen since January 2007, but AT&T has been one of the best performers. Their stock is only down 30%, almost identical to the drop in the S&P 500 and Verizon in the same period. Sprint is down 75%. Paying Apple $300 million has done more than anything else to preserve over $100 billion in AT&T’s market cap.
Apple also makes a lot more money from having an exclusive deal with AT&T. Having a single outside retailer gives Apple leverage over pricing it wouldn’t have if it sold through multiple retailers. From analysis of public records, Apple gets $288 from AT&T for each iPhone sale and $18 a month. If Apple allows another carrier to have the iPhone, it would dilute the value of the iPhone for both carriers, and it would create leverage between the carriers to get a better deal from Apple and incentive to differentiate themselves on price. Neither is good for Apple’s bottom line.
(This isn’t unique to the iPhone, either. Apple has sold their computers like this for decades. No clones, and you either buy direct from Apple, one national chain, or a sparsely-located authorized independent dealer who has zero leverage over pricing.)
I think the one thing people always miss when talking about Apple is that they don’t care about taking over the world. They’ve found a way to be more profitable than the tech giants while having a much smaller market share. They’re not going to go to Verizon – or anyone else – unless they can keep their profit per unit as high as they’re getting from AT&T alone, and that will never happen.
Laff
@South of I-10: You would do well to downgrade back to the previous OS version. Check out sites such as Gizmodo or Engadget for more info on this, but you’re definitely not the only one.
Badtux
Regarding CDMA, the legal issues are probably why Apple isn’t in a hurry to do anything there. If they wanted to release a CDMA iPhone, they would have to use a Qualcomm processor for the baseband, not the Apple-designed processor of their choice. If they wanted to release a CDMA iPhone, they would have to sign a cross-licensing agreement with Qualcomm that gave Qualcomm access to all the hard-earned patents that Apple has created around user interfaces and power management. In short, they’d have to a) grant control of their platform to another party, and b) give away the corporate jewels to that other party. For a notorious control freak like Steve Jobs, that’s not a no, that’s a HELL NO.
– Badtux the Geeky Penguin