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Polite Suggestion

By Tim F. June 18th, 2010

Maybe people in DC falsely believe that the whole world hates stimulus spending because the only calls that legislators get are from teabaggers.

Hint.

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Posted in 59-41 Senate Minority
This entry was posted on Friday, June 18th, 2010 at 1:54 pm and is filed under 59-41 Senate Minority. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed. Both comments and pings are currently closed.
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31 Responses to “Polite Suggestion”



  1. 1 El Cid Says:

    Also, I don’t think a lot of high level policymakers give that much of a shit if approximately 1 in 5 Americans in the labor force aren’t employed or working unwillingly part time, nor if we spend the next decade puttering around like Japan’s weak decade. What do they care?


    June 18th, 2010 at 1:59 pm



  2. 2 liberal Says:

    I agree that might be one of the reasons, but I would assume that the bigger problem is that the elites want austerity, just like they seem to want to transfer wealth upwards by welching on the promises implicit in the SS trust fund.


    June 18th, 2010 at 2:00 pm



  3. 3 El Cid Says:

    @liberal: Yeah, they favor austerity when it benefits the right people.


    June 18th, 2010 at 2:02 pm



  4. 4 liberal Says:

    @El Cid:
    Yeah, a good healthy chunk of it is lack of relevant experience as one of the “small people,” in tandem with a lack of empathy. (As an “educated white collar worker,” the nominal unemployment rate I face is far lower than the working class. Yet I somehow have the power of imagination to understand what a 10+% (higher if you count discouraged workers and the underemployed) must feel like.)

    Let’s be honest here, though. Bravado aside, these elites couldn’t see an $8T housing bubble. Frankly, they’re not very smart, and thus aren’t able to do good scenario planning.


    June 18th, 2010 at 2:04 pm



  5. 5 liberal Says:

    @El Cid:
    You mean, they don’t favor austerity for people or organizations who were bondholders of major financial firms which were (despite happy talk to the contrary) insolvent after the Crash? I’m shocked!


    June 18th, 2010 at 2:06 pm



  6. 6 mnpundit Says:

    Considering how often this blog blegs us to call Congress that statement can’t possibly be true Tim.


    June 18th, 2010 at 2:09 pm



  7. 7 El Cid Says:

    @liberal: They work pretty hard, though, at making sound like it’s good for all of us. Pretty much everyone I know thinks the biggest problem we have is the deficit, because of all the inflation (which doesn’t exist and no one is predicting and actually we need some), but also Obama hasn’t done enough about the jobs etc.


    June 18th, 2010 at 2:09 pm



  8. 8 liberal Says:

    Adding, some of those quotes from Keynes that Krugman trots out really shows to me that the operating psychology is the same as in the 1930s. The more things change…


    June 18th, 2010 at 2:10 pm



  9. 9 liberal Says:

    @El Cid:

    ...because of all the inflation (which doesn’t exist and no one is predicting and actually we need some)...

    Heh. My favorite is these guys who think that just because the Fed is injecting “base money” into the banks, that the total money supply must go up and it must be inflationary.

    I don’t know much (or enough) about the monetary system, but I know enough to say they don’t know anything.


    June 18th, 2010 at 2:12 pm



  10. 10 liberal Says:

    I should add that one of the weird things about the world is the manner in which people running the financial system over there in Yurp make even Geithner look good.


    June 18th, 2010 at 2:13 pm



  11. 11 El Cid Says:

    @liberal: Like I’ve said before, I think a lot of people use the word “inflation” to mean that it’s harder for them to afford stuff now.


    June 18th, 2010 at 2:15 pm



  12. 12 jwb Says:

    @mnpundit: I’m glad that Tim puts up these blegs occasionally.


    June 18th, 2010 at 2:15 pm



  13. 13 liberal Says:

    @El Cid:

    Pretty much everyone I know thinks the biggest problem we have is the deficit…

    I’ve seen polls about that too, but Krugman’s point that voters generally don’t give a shit about deficits is surely correct, given how much they cared about them during Republican misrule. It’s pretty clear that all the screaming about deficits now is somewhat driven by the Republicans. (The rest is driven by people like Pete “I want to cancel Social Security, and I don’t want to taxes on carried interest to be raised” Peterson.)


    June 18th, 2010 at 2:15 pm



  14. 14 PaulW Says:

    Suggest to every unemployed person you know to mail their resumes to every Senator – both parties – with cover letters pleading for jobs, as a reminder that there’s 25 million Americans desperate for work.


    June 18th, 2010 at 2:15 pm



  15. 15 liberal Says:

    @jwb:
    Yeah, Tim’s good.


    June 18th, 2010 at 2:16 pm



  16. 16 jwb Says:

    @liberal: I think people may well care about the deficit, even when the Goopers are increasing it. But I don’t think most people understand the deficit, nor how a public budget differs from a private one.


    June 18th, 2010 at 2:18 pm



  17. 17 Miss Kitka's Comrade Wayne Says:

    ¡Empatar o morir!


    June 18th, 2010 at 2:18 pm



  18. 18 El Cid Says:

    @liberal: I’m not suggesting that today’s “deficit” concern isn’t ginned up artificially, because they only ‘matter’ under Democratic Presidents and only insofar as it’s an excuse to cut social welfare spending & development investment.

    But it’s enough chatter to help the “pain caucus” finally impose on us the ‘advice’ (extortion over economic systems in return for ‘loans’ already repaid back many times via interest) they used to give via the IMF and World Bank to South America and Africa, so that they’d have the discipline to cut elementary school budgets and charge fees and cut public health programs and stop supporting the development of local industry and get back to just exporting their natural and agricultural primary products at a cut rate.


    June 18th, 2010 at 2:21 pm



  19. 19 cleek Says:

    @liberal:
    Harpers ran a story a year ago comparing Obama to Hoover.

    It is impossible not to wish desperately for his success as he tries to grapple with all that confronts him: a worldwide depression, catastrophic climate change, an unjust and inadequate health-care system, wars in Afghanistan and Iraq, the ongoing disgrace of Guant·namo, a floundering education system.
    ...
    Obama’s failure would be unthinkable. And yet the best indications now are that he will fail, because he will be unable—indeed he will refuse—to seize the radical moment at hand.
    ...
    Every instinct the president has honed, every voice he hears in Washington, every inclination of our political culture urges incrementalism, urges deliberation, if any significant change is to be brought about. The trouble is that we are at one of those rare moments in history when the radical becomes pragmatic, when deliberation and compromise foster disaster. The question is not what can be done but what must be done.
    ..
    We have confronted such emergencies only a few times before in the history of the Republic: during the secession crisis of 1860–61, at the start of World War II, at the outset of the Cold War and the nuclear age. Probably the moment most comparable to the present was the start of the Great Depression, and for the scope and the quantity of the problems he is facing, Obama has frequently been compared with Franklin Roosevelt. So far, though, he most resembles the other president who had to confront that crisis, Herbert Hoover.

    i read that when it came out and dismissed it as overly pessimistic – Obama couldn’t be that timid and conventional, could he ?

    good for author Kevin Baker for being a year ahead of conventional wisdom. i guess.


    June 18th, 2010 at 2:21 pm



  20. 20 cat48 Says:

    THIS GALLUP POLL CAME OUT YESTERDAY & THOSE POLLED WANTED STIMULUS SPENDING AS NUMBER ONE ISSUE. Congress needs to get a clue!

    June 17, 2010
    Americans Back More Stimulus Spending to Create Jobs
    Republicans and independents favor repealing healthcare reform
    by Lydia Saad

    PRINCETON, NJ—Among four pieces of legislation Congress could consider this year, Americans are most supportive of authorizing more economic stimulus spending. Specifically, according to a June 11-13 USA Today/Gallup poll, 60% of Americans say they would favor “additional government spending to create jobs and stimulate the economy.”

    2010 Congressional Legislative Priorities: Stimulus Spending, Energy Regulation, Bank Regulation, Healthcare Reform Repeal

    Nearly as many Americans—56%—favor regulating energy output from private companies, a key element of the “cap and trade” bill that has been stalled in Congress and that President Obama alluded to in his Tuesday night Oval Office address. However, it should be noted that the question highlights the positive goal of reducing global warming, but not any of the potential costs for business and consumers.

    Independents Open to All Proposals
    Republicans and Democrats are diametrically opposed in their reactions to the proposals tested in the new poll, while a slim majority of independents favor all four—including repealing healthcare reform.

    Large majorities of Democrats would like to see increased regulation of financial institutions, new laws regulating energy use by private companies, and more economic stimulus spending; smaller majorities of Republicans oppose each of these. Conversely, Republicans broadly favor repealing the new healthcare reform law, while two-thirds of Democrats are opposed.

    Stimulus spending emerges as the most widely favored proposal of the four, overall, because of support that is particularly high from Democrats (83%) and relatively high from Republicans (38%) compared with the other Democrat-favored items.

    2010 Congressional Legislative Priorities, by Party ID

    Bottom Line

    The American public has a generally positive reaction to each of four varied pieces of legislation Congress might consider this year, with slim majorities of political independents in favor of all of them. While none of the four proposals bridges partisan disagreement, the idea of new economic stimulus spending to create jobs generates the most crossover appeal from Republicans while achieving particularly high support from Democrats.

    Americans’ support for jobs-directed stimulus spending may seem at odds with separate Gallup polling showing significant public concern about the federal debt. However, it should be noted that the stimulus question wording highlights the economic benefits of new spending. In line with this, recent Gallup polling has found that despite their debt concerns, more Americans choose the economy than the federal budget deficit when asked how important each will be to their vote for Congress this fall.
    Survey Methods

    Results for this USA Today/Gallup poll are based on telephone interviews conducted June 11-13, 2010, with a random sample of 1,014 adults, aged 18 and older, living in the continental U.S., selected using random-digit-dial sampling.


    June 18th, 2010 at 2:22 pm



  21. 21 liberal Says:

    @cleek:
    Really good comment, cleek.

    I think I read it when it came out. I’m guessing that my impression was that it wasn’t too pessimistic, but I don’t recall for sure. My reasoning wouldn’t have been that Obama himself was clearly not going to be radical enough, but that it’s a rare quality in a leader, so the best bet—-the Bayesian prior, if you will—-was against it.


    June 18th, 2010 at 2:26 pm



  22. 22 liberal Says:

    @cleek:
    Actually, Krugman was right on also, in terms of predictions. He claimed that the proposed stimulus was good, but back-of-the-envelope numbers showed it was too small by about a factor (of 2, IIRC). And because it was too small, even though it would help by cutting job losses compared to the do-nothing policy regime, the unemployment rate wouldn’t really drop a lot, with the result that the budget hawks would say, “look, we already had one round of stimulus, and it didn’t solve things completely, and you don’t get another one.”

    That’s been completely born out by events.


    June 18th, 2010 at 2:29 pm



  23. 23 liberal Says:

    ...hmm, is it just me, or are things a little on the slow side around here? Folks on vacation?

    Maybe we need to start another I/P thread…


    June 18th, 2010 at 2:32 pm



  24. 24 liberal Says:

    @cat48:
    Who cares what most Americans think? All that matters is what Pete Peterson thinks.


    June 18th, 2010 at 2:33 pm



  25. 25 El Cid Says:

    Good news everyone!

    WASHINGTON – A majority of states saw their unemployment rates drop in May. But the widespread declines were mainly because people gave up looking for work and were no longer counted.


    June 18th, 2010 at 2:54 pm



  26. 26 Bondo Says:

    I think we should start electing politicians who know what selection bias is. People who contact their representatives aren’t representative of one’s constituency and thus should be completely ignored. I’d rather have a politician who follows polling than one who follows call counts…even more I’d like a politician who just does what he or she thinks is right.


    June 18th, 2010 at 3:37 pm



  27. 27 tatere Says:

    I am so sure that Dianne Feinstein would do the right thing if only enough liberals would call her office. On Mars.


    June 18th, 2010 at 3:40 pm



  28. 28 Mnemosyne Says:

    @liberal:

    I’ve seen polls about that too, but Krugman’s point that voters generally don’t give a shit about deficits is surely correct, given how much they cared about them during Republican misrule.

    I’ve seen some people (I think Kthug was one) theorize that people say “deficits” as a catch-all for their problems with the government’s priorities. IOW, in their minds job creation is something that would help with the deficit, not add to it. Of course, in the long term, they’re right, but it allows Republicans to point to polls and say, “See, nobody wants more government stimulus!”


    June 18th, 2010 at 3:53 pm



  29. 29 Mnemosyne Says:

    @cat48:

    I’m not despairing about the administration’s decisions just yet, because Obama is informing the G20 that worldwide massive cuts right now would be disastrous:

    “I am committed to the restoration of fiscal sustainability,” Obama said, “but it is critical that the timing and pace of consolidation in each economy suit the needs of the global economy, the momentum of private sector demand, and national circumstances.” The United States is setting budget goals for 2013, for example, but in the interim “will pursue measures to support the recovery in private demand and return the unemployed to work,” he wrote.

    Once again, this seems to be one of those areas where the Blue Dogs are insisting that we tie a rock to our feet before we can try to swim out of the whirlpool we’re being sucked into.

    (via Washington Monthly)


    June 18th, 2010 at 3:58 pm



  30. 30 liberal Says:

    @Mnemosyne:
    That’s a glass half-full half-empty issue.

    Half full: discussion here not nearly as f*cked up as it appears to be in Europe.
    Half empty: discussion in Europe even more f*cked up than here.


    June 18th, 2010 at 4:38 pm



  31. 31 Mnemosyne Says:

    @liberal:

    I have to go with half full, because otherwise I would slit my wrists. YMMV.


    June 18th, 2010 at 5:32 pm