We’ll start with this:
It was as if the five years of almost ceaseless firefights and ambushes had been a misunderstanding — a tragic, bloody misunderstanding.
More than 40 U.S. troops have been killed, and scores more wounded, in helicopter crashes, machine-gun attacks and grenade blasts in the Korengal Valley, a jagged sliver just six miles long and a half-mile wide. The Afghan death toll has been far higher, making the Korengal some of the bloodiest ground in all of Afghanistan, according to American and Afghan officials.
In the pre-dawn hours of Wednesday, the U.S. presence here came to an abrupt end.
***For U.S. commanders, the Korengal Valley offers a hard lesson in the limits of American power and goodwill in Afghanistan. The valley’s extreme isolation, its axle-breaking terrain and its inhabitants’ suspicion of outsiders made it a perfect spot to wage an insurgency against a Western army.
U.S. troops arrived here in 2005 to flush out al-Qaeda and Taliban fighters. They stayed on the theory that their presence drew insurgents away from areas where the U.S. role is more tolerated and there is a greater desire for development. The troops were, in essence, bullet magnets.
In 2010, a new set of commanders concluded that the United States had blundered into a blood feud with fierce and clannish villagers who wanted, above all, to be left alone. By this logic, subduing the Korengal wasn’t worth the cost in American blood.
It took five years to figure that out? And we’re dumping more blood and treasure in Afghanistan?
El Cid
Wait — are you suggesting our AWSUM new “counterinsurgency” theory didn’t allow us to completely abandon all the things people thought they learned about the nastiness of colonial occupation wars throughout the globe over the past 50 or so years?
Couldn’t we just do a SUUUUUURGE and fix everything, like we fixed everything in Iraq?
jeffreyw
Spent 2 years in the An Do valley in Viet Nam. Sounds like the same kinda place.
Alex S.
Stories like these tell us that the U.S. has stepped into the afghan mess just like the Soviet Union. They were in there for 11 years, the U.S. will be in there for at least 10 years – and all the gains and victories will be for nothing, because the Taliban or some other warlord will get to power, or Karzai will join them to keep his power and there’ll be no progress whatsoever.
JGabriel
Actually, it only took a year and a third to figure out. Before then, they didn’t have thinking leadership.
But if you wait until new leadership comes along, then they take the blame for the previous administration’s idiocy – e.g., the story is part of a series called Obama’s War.
.
stuckinred
Not as big or bloody as the A-Shau Valley but we finally di-di’d out of there too. When will they start with the “cut and run” bullshit?
SRW1
I’d say the US is about as fast on the intellectual uptake as the Soviets were. Another five years for winding down this affair and it will end up being an almost prefect match to the Soviets misadventure. Remember, the unraveling of the structures the Soviets left behind also took a while.
Napoleon
Korengal Valley aka Hamburger Hill 2.0
El Cid
@jeffreyw: Your experience in Viet Nam was clearly irrelevant, since (a) George Bush Sr. “kicked the Vietnam syndrome” with the first Gulf War, and (b) we have a “new” counterinsurgency doctrine which is totally new and better than all the counterinsurgency we were doing back then. It’s true. Just ask the COIN experts.
stuckinred
@jeffreyw: Damn, the Herd huh? One of my best buddies was 4th Batt, 69-70.
stuckinred
@Napoleon: Except that Hamburger Hill only lasted 10 days and was a direct assault as opposed to 3 + years.
Face
HOW DARE YOU QUESTION THE WISDOM OF McCHRYSTAL AND PETREAUS!
Why do you hate the military, libtard?
Culture of Truth
“a blood feud with fierce and clannish villagers who wanted, above all, to be left alone.”
It’s like a Broder – Greenspan faceoff, but with less pudding.
rootless-e
“They stayed on the theory that their presence drew insurgents away from areas where the U.S. role is more tolerated and there is a greater desire for development. The troops were, in essence, bullet magnets.”
In a sane world, the people who came up with this strategy would never have been promoted past keyboard commando.
Punchy
Yeah, but none of this matters, because Kate Gosselin dances on TV.
Dork
Like chick magnets, only with bullets.
SGEW
From Rubin’s parallel article at the NYT:
(emphasis added)
JGabriel
rootless-e:
In a sane world, they’d be charged as accomplices in the murder of every soldier that died there, and sentenced to prison for life.
.
cleek
@Punchy:
but she sucks at it. so she won’t be dancing forever.
what will we do when she’s gone ?
ppcli
“U.S. troops arrived here in 2005 to flush out al-Qaeda and Taliban fighters. They stayed on the theory that their presence drew insurgents away from areas where the U.S. role is more tolerated and there is a greater desire for development.”
Learn something new every day here. I didn’t realize that “Korengal” is Pushtu for “Dien Bien Phu”.
mcd410x
I hate to hijack a thread, but …
If you want to do something meaningful today, call your local newspaper and tell the editor/managing editor that the tea party doesn’t represent you.
They’ve been calling all week. Phone calls are things that get attention, and we’re getting beaten.
Thanks
jeffreyw
@stuckinred: yup
Punchy
@cleek: Yahoo told me yesterday that we’re supposed to start preparing for Tiger’s divorce.
If I were Obama, I’d call Tiger, find out when this day is, and 4 hours before, recess appoint like 150 judges and a Supreme. It’d be like July before we’d hear about it; October if the divorce is messy.
Kathleen
glad you viet vets made it out. hope those there now do too.
liberal
{begin-flame-bait}
Buh…buh…buh…Obama said we should, and it was his campaign promise, so it’s gotta be the right thing to do!!1!
{end-flame-bait}
Jose Padilla
Didn’t the Soviets go through the exact same experience in the exact same valley twenty-five years ago?
Linda Featheringill
Afghanistan – The more I learn about it the less I understand it. It is scary.
I know I have a lot of company. The Soviets never figured it out. The US hasn’t so far. One of the smartest humans alive today is working on it [Obama] and I am not sure if he has a good handle on it.
I wonder if Obama has ever read Brer Rabbit? He might not. The adults around him may have shielded him from this story.
Anyway, I fear that the whole area of Afghanistan is one big tar baby. And Pakistan is not a whole lot better.
Jager
As another old vet, the Viet Nam thing…also
Hypnos
That Afghanistan is a troop-devouring bottomless pit which swallows armies like they were candies has been known for a little longer that 30 years.
In fact, see if this rings a bell:
“I am involved in the land of a ‘Leonine’ (lion-like) and brave people, where every foot of the ground is like a well of steel, confronting my soldier. You have brought only one son into the world, but Everyone in this land can be called an Alexander.”
— Alexander the Great, letter to his mother from (what is now) Afghanistan, 330 BC
LosGatosCA
Afghanistan is not that hard to figure out.
Think Mississippi with less literacy, fewer natural resources, and a drug addled culture.
And we can’t get Mississippi to accept de-segregation 56 years after Brown vs The Board. Or in 2004 trying to have Alabama remove segregated schools from it’s state constitution-failed.
Ignorant people who own nothing of value and don’t aspire to anything more can’t be tamed.
It’s just that simple.
slartibartfast
Perhaps the best solution would be for NASA to redirect its efforts to find a way to pick Afghanistan up in its entirity and deposit it in the middle of the Indian Ocean. I think that might have a better chance of success than actually trying to create any western-style institutions there.
Svensker
One of the reasons it took them 5 years to figure that out:
We have a number of friends who were in the State Department in the Middle East a few years back, who stay in touch with people still in the service. As of last year, the State Dept. had FIVE people who were considered “fluent” in Arabic. Five. When we’ve been at war in Iraq for 7 years, have bases in Saudi Arabia, and are generally sticking our noses in others people’s pie over there big time and have been for generations. Five Arabic speakers.
But Arabic is a major language and the Arabic you speak in Egypt is pretty much like the Arabic in Iraq, or Saudi, etc., with the exception of a few words and the accent — much as English in England, US, Australia, etc.
Afghanistan has a number of different languages, Pushtun, Dari, etc. How many “fluent” Dari speakers do you think we have, given we have five Arabic speakers?
Ignorance is bad enough, but combine it with arrogance and a huge military budget, and you get our middle east clusterfuck.
Persia
@JGabriel: Don’t forget the civilians.
slartibartfast
5 minutes of “moderation” before anybody can see your comment? That doesn’t make for a very lively discussion. I think that solution to the troll problem bears a more than passing resemblance to US policy in Afghanistan.
slartibartfast
Five Arabic experts in all of the State department. If they were serious about this counterinsurgency, every single army officer who has any contact with the locals should have ot learn the language.
slartibartfast
Think Mississippi with less literacy, fewer natural resources, and a drug addled culture.
More like Papua New Guinea with Islam and Kalashnikovs if you ask me.
John Cole
@slartibartfast: OMG! Five WHOLE minutes! Before someone dug your comment out of the spam filter on a free website!
The horrors!
Henk
Smart mature people learn from their mistakes, REALLY smart people learn from other people’s mistakes. I’m pretty sure we have some really smart people in the military, but I am just as sure none of them are in leadership.
slartibartfast
@John Cole: Hey, sorry to get your hackles up. It was more of a critique than a complaint, really. I’ll me moving right along now, at any rate…
racrecir
The ol’ flypaper strategy…ah, the memories.
I will say this though: our women aren’t wearing burkas, are they?. Republicans should take this opportunity to bring one of their ‘sense of Congress’ bills affirming the freedoms that have been secured.
LosGatosCA
Think Mississippi with less literacy, fewer natural resources, and a drug addled culture.
More like Papua New Guinea with Islam and Kalashnikovs if you ask me.
Thanks for expanding on my thought. If I extend to Mississippi the Christian Taliban and Browning rifle ownership, I’m confident all three examples are equivalent.
darrelplant
@ppcli:
According to the “Morning Edition” piece this morning, even though the people there speak Pushtu, their primary language is Korengali, which — as you can probably guess — is only spoken in the valley.
tavella
@Hypnos: Perhaps there should be a new rule, along with “never get into a land war in Asia”: if Alexander the Great couldn’t manage to subdue a place, stay the hell out.
Keith
Yes, as a matter of fact that’s how long it takes. This isn’t math, you can’t just write it out as an equation and say, Lo! it all equals 0!
gypsy howell
I is a genius, apparently. Because I knew back in 2001 we should not be fucking around in Afghanistan with our military, any more than we should be fucking around in Iraq. Pisses me off to hear so many otherwise smart people saying that Iraq was the wrong war, but Afghanistan is, somehow, the right war.
Sometimes the peaceniks are right. In fact, we are almost always right.
John in Raleigh
@slartibartfast:
Then we would have a lot of Arabic-speaking military officers in a country that speaks Pashto or Dari.
Brilliant.
LD50
Not exactly true. There is Standard Arabic, which is an offshoot of Koranic Arabic, which no one speaks natively, and yet which is the only form of Arabic anyone writes. It’s the same throughout the Arabic world, and all educated Arabs speak it. Lots of not-so-well educated Arabs can’t understand it at all, tho. At the SPOKEN level, there are at least 20 different spoken Arabic languages, most of them completely mutually unintelligible with each other. In other words, a Moroccan can’t understand an Algerian, who in turn can’t understand an Egyptian, who in turn can’t understand a Syrian, who can’t understand a Saudi, or an Iraqi, etc., etc., etc.
The army teaches only standard Arabic to people based in Iraq. The result of this is, as the interpreters themselves have said, “they can understand us, but we can’t understand them”.
Actually, Dari and Pashto cover about 95% of Afghans. And the remaining 5% almost always learn one or both of those as a second language. Dari is almost the same language as Farsi, so teaching it shouldn’t be TOO hard.
Oscar Leroy
But. . . but. . . but Obama said he would during the campaign?
ignoreland
Why not just bomb them? Packages of food, seeds, crated live animals, well-digging and irrigation equipment, blankets. Just not guns or ammo. Wait a while, then start with some basic culturally aware books, radios, other means of communication, and let them take their own time joining the rest of the world.
Probably cost 1/10 the price of rehabilitating 1 injured soldier.
riff
“is frustrating, because we bled there and now we’re leaving,” said Capt. John P. Rodriguez, who as a first lieutenant served there with Company B, First Battalion, 26th Marines. “So you question: Were those sacrifices worth it? But just because you lost guys in a place, doesn’t mean you need to stay there.”
reading this was eerie. I was a grunt in B Co. 1st Battalion 26th Marines in Vietnam 1969. We lost guys. We came home. a little broken, but we came home.
This time it’s different, though. we got all the COIN goin’ on.
Griff
D-Chance.
Obama’s War = Death of the American Empire.
Guess he hasn’t boned up on his world history. At least, the O-boy could have asked around while prostrating himself before his fellow leaders in Russia and Britain and elsewhere as to what happens to so-called “great” armies in the mountains of Afghanistan or why it’s long regarded as a graveyard.
LD50
@D-Chance.:
Yeah, REALLY! I don’t know WHY President Obama chose to invade Afghanistan back in 2001!
Mnemosyne
@D-Chance.:
Yes, I remember that day so clearly, the day that Obama ordered the invasion of Afghanistan in 2001 …
Will
Svensker,
The military – and the government in general – has a huge problem recruiting Arabists. That’s because, to become an Arabist, you have to learn a lot about the region, meet its people and learn its history. The usual end result of this is to radicalize the student against the U.S. government’s actions in this region.
I saw this happen in graduate school. I knew two Middle Eastern history students who went into school after 9/11 because they knew there would be jobs for them when they graduated. After spending time in the region and with families for immersion language programs, they said “fuck that” about their government plans and went the academic route.
stuckinred
@riff: My cousin was 1/26 in 66.
Phil P.
@slartibartfast:
Not too sure about the value of this suggestion, but it is fantastic that it comes from somebody named Slartibartfast. Well done.