Principled, My Eye
I’m getting really tired of the media portrayal of anti-choice Democrats as “principled.” You know what else is principled? Having enough faith in your fellow citizen to make the right decision about their own body without feeling the need to butt in and meddle in their business.
And besides, they aren’t even principled at all- they are, as we speak, negotiating an executive order with the WH which would basically reaffirm existing law. They’re just looking for political cover at this point. That is the opposite of principled.
March 21, 2010 2:11 pm
Posted in: Assholes, Our Failed Media Experiment
88 Comments
88 Responses
tyrese - March 21, 2010 | 2:13 pm · Link
I’m pro-choice. But the “Don’t like abortion? Don’t have one.” line of argumentation is idiotic. Don’t like slavery? Don’t have a slave.
Mike Kay - March 21, 2010 | 2:16 pm · Link
butt, butt, butt…
said by…. wait for it… Hanoi Jane Hamsher
Yes, stupak is lying through his teeth on HCR funding abortion, but somehow Jane equates lies and grandstanding with conviction. Some people will say and do anything to sink HCR.
SIA - March 21, 2010 | 2:17 pm · Link
I want it passed without Stupak, and I want him to go down in the primary. Fucking self important ….can’t think of a good (bad) enough name to call him.
slag - March 21, 2010 | 2:18 pm · Link
@tyrese: Spare us. In no way is a fetus comparable to a slave.
General Egali Tarian Stuck - March 21, 2010 | 2:18 pm · Link
Knew he’d end up voting yea, just glad he did. I’ll be outraged at the asshat’s pointless spectacle later, only happy thoughts today. For it looks like the 50,000 souls who will die unnecessarily in future years, every year, may get to lifeline.
mcd410x - March 21, 2010 | 2:18 pm · Link
Two thoughts:
If nothing else, the GOP is very good as creating a scene (governing, not so much). The Dems at this point would be rolling on their backs with their legs in the air, hoping for a tummy rub from the Republicans.
If I’m hearing the GOP correctly, state legislatures getting together and declaring GW Bush “not President” was an option. Interesting.
mcd410x - March 21, 2010 | 2:20 pm · Link
@slag: And you’ve pointed out exactly what that line of argument is idiotic.
latts - March 21, 2010 | 2:21 pm · Link
Yeah, I love the kind of “principles” that apply exclusively to others’ lives & decisions. That’s the cheap, fast-food moralism that pretty much defines a lot of this country.
clonecone - March 21, 2010 | 2:21 pm · Link
All no votes are equal.
AkaDad - March 21, 2010 | 2:21 pm · Link
People who were against abolishing slavery were principled too. Also, as well.
SIA - March 21, 2010 | 2:23 pm · Link
OOOH. Paul Ryan has a scary graph.
slag - March 21, 2010 | 2:23 pm · Link
@Mike Kay: Je-sus! All the synonyms for “crazy” I can think of just don’t seem to cut it here.
Mike Kay - March 21, 2010 | 2:24 pm · Link
Teabaggers break into House Chamber
http://www.dailykos.com/storyo.....e-chamber!
Death Throes.
John W. - March 21, 2010 | 2:24 pm · Link
They’re looking for political cover because the jig is up and they lost!
It just feels good to say that.
clone12 - March 21, 2010 | 2:25 pm · Link
If purity progressives were around in 1944, they’d would have publicly leaked the D-Day plan to General Rommel because Eisenhower’s invasion does not go all the way into Germany and therefore is worse than the status quo.
Mike Kay - March 21, 2010 | 2:25 pm · Link
Bill Foster to vote AYE!
beltane - March 21, 2010 | 2:26 pm · Link
Bill Foster is now a “yes”. A commenter at DKos said some reps were switching to yes votes on account of the teabagger freak show.
Ailuridae - March 21, 2010 | 2:27 pm · Link
@Mike Kay:
I’m starting to get worried that law enforcement is going to have to do something pretty drastic.
jayackroyd - March 21, 2010 | 2:27 pm · Link
I am talking to digby and cliff schecter tonight. This is a question i want to raise. At this point, why is it NOT a litmus test, that to be a Democrat is to believe in women’s right to make their reproductive decisions? Does the tent really need to include people who consider women’s wombs property of the state? it seems to me that this is as core a value as civil rights for brown people. A Democrat who supported restoring segregation or Jim Crow would be drummed out of the party. I do not see why reproductive rights are any different.
demkat620 - March 21, 2010 | 2:27 pm · Link
@beltane: Good!
Let the nation see the freak show for what it is. Bad news for the country when the lunatics take the stage.
SIA - March 21, 2010 | 2:28 pm · Link
Rep. Kennedy up. I miss Teddy. To think of that Cosmo-Boy in Ted’s seat is nauseating.
beltane - March 21, 2010 | 2:28 pm · Link
@Mike Kay: This is their Appomattox. Too bad they’re being led by the village idiot and not Robert E. Lee. Their surrender will not be stately and dignified.
Mike E - March 21, 2010 | 2:29 pm · Link
Fluffy and ChuckTodd are launching the ‘HCR—FAIL?’ meme today, officially jumping into John Boehners tanning booth.
Karl Rove takes over the McCain Chair at This Week, and will stay there until Christianne Amanpour forcibly evicts him in August.
John W. - March 21, 2010 | 2:30 pm · Link
Can you imagine how much pro-slavery pro-Union politicians in the border states would be revered by today’s media? My god, I think if Wolf Blitzer was around in 1860, we’d have John Bell on the 5 dollar bill.
South of I-10 - March 21, 2010 | 2:31 pm · Link
I just wanted to tell you good luck. We’re all counting on you.
freelancer - March 21, 2010 | 2:31 pm · Link
@beltane:
Clearly, this is an indicator showing that the tea partiers need to be even more Conservative.
Violet - March 21, 2010 | 2:34 pm · Link
Go Sheila and her braids!
Martin - March 21, 2010 | 2:35 pm · Link
@beltane: Remember that HCR is exactly the same as the Yankee War of Aggression. Before this day is out, I expect a woman will be impregnated by a stray bullet shot through a teabagger’s scrotum and landing in her uterus – if only to underscore the importance of denying federal funding of abortion in this debate.
LuciaMia - March 21, 2010 | 2:36 pm · Link
And don’t call me Shirley!
gbear - March 21, 2010 | 2:36 pm · Link
@South of I-10:
I just wanted to tell you good luck. We’re all counting on you.
Eljai - March 21, 2010 | 2:37 pm · Link
It never occurs to the unrelenting forced-childbirth crowd, that if a woman doesn’t want to have a baby, it’s because she has a damn good reason, like maybe the father is an asshat, or worse.
Martin - March 21, 2010 | 2:37 pm · Link
And more gasoline for the fire:
rob! - March 21, 2010 | 2:39 pm · Link
Peter Graves, R.I.P.
ronathan richardson - March 21, 2010 | 2:40 pm · Link
Jesus Christ. Having the “courage of his convictions” means being a 4 year old who has to get everything he wants and will throw a hissy fit and run away if that doesn’t happen. You know what takes courage? Realizing that we have a fucked up government and anything it produces will have significant flaws, having the maturity to weigh the good and the bad, and strongly supporting a bill that will go a long way to making our healthcare system better even if some people will be able to attack its shortcomings.
SIA - March 21, 2010 | 2:41 pm · Link
Paul Ryan says we should start over. Uh huh. Get me a clean sheet of paper, quick.
gbear - March 21, 2010 | 2:42 pm · Link
Marty DiPelosi: “This tasteless
covernon-platform is a good indication of the lack ofmusicalpolitical invention within. Themusicalpolitical growth of thisbandparty cannot even be charted. They are treading water in a sea of retarded sexuality and badpoetrypolicy.”Nigel GOPnel: That’s just nitpicking, isn’t it?
Alex S. - March 21, 2010 | 2:43 pm · Link
Damn, I hope noone gets hurt.
Have to agree with John W. and expand on that. The establishment republicans went all-in. They needed HCR to fail to gain credibility with their crazy base. But now they are looking powerless and the fringe will start looking for a different home.
me - March 21, 2010 | 2:43 pm · Link
@SIA: I’ve come to dislike him quite a bit. Too bad there’s a snowballs chance in hell of him getting defeated in November. I feel like calling his office and telling his staff that as one of his constituents, I think he’s a fucking idiot.
rob! - March 21, 2010 | 2:44 pm · Link
Can someone explain to me how the Conservatives reconcile these two beliefs:
1)The government is incapable of doing anything right, so we need as little of it as possible.
2)The government should be able to decide when a cluster of cells becomes a person, a point of debate unsettled even after thousands of years of theological debate.
...I know, I know, the conservatives don’t reconcile anything. They just say A, then they say B, and maybe even C, and no one in the media ever asks them about the fact that all their beliefs are in total contradiction with one another.
People like David Gregory just nod their head, fondle McCain’s shaft, and book him for next week’s Sunday morning show.
MikeJ - March 21, 2010 | 2:44 pm · Link
@SIA: He doesn’t need a clean sheet of paper, he needs the box of kleenex on his nightstand.
Annie - March 21, 2010 | 2:45 pm · Link
@Martin:
MG…We are talking about, debating about and voting about essentially issues of life and death, and these “lawmakers” think this is some playground fist fight, with mascots, and colored flags, and cute little slogans…Someone needs to change their diapers, and send them home for naps.
gbear - March 21, 2010 | 2:45 pm · Link
@Martin:
What immature fucks they are.
Martin - March 21, 2010 | 2:46 pm · Link
Yeah, I’m going to check out for the next 6 hours. I just can’t stomach the tsunami of crazy that is being unleashed by the right. What’s going to kill them is that popularity of this bill will skyrocket over the next few months once there’s no longer a need to lie about it.
Violet - March 21, 2010 | 2:48 pm · Link
@Alex S.:
The media is going to focus on the Dem “comeback” and how strong Nancy Peolosi is, etc. Plus, “what does the health care bill mean for me” – that started today with the Today Show having a long segment with that very title.
The whole discussion shifts if this thing passes. Republican know this. Democrats are about to find out. IF they pass it. Come on, Dems. Pass the damn bill!
Tonal Crow - March 21, 2010 | 2:48 pm · Link
@rob!: Republicans argue to the emotions, not to the intellect. Hence, their arguments need only emotional consistency, not intellectual consistency.
Mike Kay - March 21, 2010 | 2:48 pm · Link
@rob!: That was Lesile Neilson
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v.....re=related
SIA - March 21, 2010 | 2:48 pm · Link
@me: I agree, and he is more dangerous than some of the GOP because he is presented (by himself, and the media) as a “serious” “smart” republican.
This CA rep Devin Nunes needs to get on back to the Frat House and have a brewski.
Atheane - March 21, 2010 | 2:49 pm · Link
Or that things like the partial-birth abortion ban will actually kill women who WANT to have babies—when things go bad in late pregnancy, an abortion is often the safest option for the mother.
The stuff I read here after the Tiller murder was chilling.
A.
Max - March 21, 2010 | 2:49 pm · Link
@Violet: I agree. It’s a great momentum builder to take us into the summer silly season.
Republicans are always premature peakers.
Obama’s timing is impeccable.
/O-bot
General Egali Tarian Stuck - March 21, 2010 | 2:49 pm · Link
I don’t care what anybody says, K-Low is a national treasure for pol comic relief.
So much irony packed in so few words.
She goes on
She is catching on
And finally realizes she received an Pelosi/Obama Atomic Wedgie and life ain’t fair cause Bart Stupak turned out to be just another libtard after all.
Just another tricky day in The Corner of Clueless.
Tonal Crow - March 21, 2010 | 2:50 pm · Link
Whip list. Let’s push this over the top.
freelancer - March 21, 2010 | 2:51 pm · Link
Every single person in this video has been “taken out of context”.
hattip TBogg.
Atheane - March 21, 2010 | 2:53 pm · Link
Because we want power more than anything in the world, and women are expendable.
A.
Nutella - March 21, 2010 | 2:55 pm · Link
Stupak having the “courage of his convictions”—right. Because what he’s throwing his hissy fit about is a conviction that what he imagines to be in the bill is in the bill. He’s nobly and virtuously objecting to a provision that is not in the bill at all.
I don’t know whether that’s worse than his woman-hating or only just as bad, but his shameless lies will make a pretty good issue for his primary opponent. That and the fact that Mr Super-Moral Super-Catholic lives in an evangelical sex club when he’s in DC.
Alex S. - March 21, 2010 | 2:55 pm · Link
@Tonal Crow:
Hehe, “emotional consistency”, good one
marcopolo - March 21, 2010 | 2:55 pm · Link
@General Egali Tarian Stuck: But but but what about all those E-orders that 43 signed?
General Egali Tarian Stuck - March 21, 2010 | 2:55 pm · Link
@freelancer: I love it. The “blue pill or the black pill” Freud would have a field day with these nuts.
me - March 21, 2010 | 2:56 pm · Link
@General Egali Tarian Stuck: I thought that the President was an Emperor and Field Marshall both at the same time? Oh wait, that was G. W. Bush. Obama is entirely powerless.
kay - March 21, 2010 | 3:00 pm · Link
Anti-choice is the easiest “principled” position to hold in the world, bar none.
It carries no risk, and has no personal or political repercussions to the people who take it up. If you’re anti-abortion, you weren’t getting an abortion no matter where the law is, so there’s zero personal sacrifice.
Bart Stupak thought he was walking over coals when he got a couple of angry faxes, and no wonder he was feeling sorry for himself. Anti-choicers are coddled and deferred to like they’re delicate flowers.
I doubt he’s been so much as politely questioned on it, prior to this.
pseudonymous in nc - March 21, 2010 | 3:00 pm · Link
Don’t forget, too, that it’s terribly impolite to note how McCain has been sucking the socialized or subsidized healthcare tit since the day he was born in Coco Solo Naval Air Station.
Annie - March 21, 2010 | 3:03 pm · Link
@General Egali Tarian Stuck:
Can’t we just lock her up in the Museum of Natural History as one of the world’s oldest virgins…We can visit her as she runs through her native habitat, with a halo encircling her head, and purity dripping from her aging bones…
It not only is increasingly difficult to stomach her rantings, but she also is one of the world’s worst writers.
The Main Gauche of Mild Reason - March 21, 2010 | 3:04 pm · Link
Dude. W. T. F. Can anyone think of the last time a protester actually disrupted business during a session of congress? Republicans: bringing our discourse to ever new lows.
morzer - March 21, 2010 | 3:05 pm · Link
@pseudonymous in nc:
God forbid they talk about the other things John Spineless McShame has sucked!
Mike Jones - March 21, 2010 | 3:05 pm · Link
“Principles” in vacuo aren’t something to celebrate. Goebbels and Himmler stuck by their principles. They were also “loyal”. When someone tells you you should admire someone for being “principled” or “loyal” but doesn’t want to talk about what their principles are are usually trying to pull the wool over your eyes.
LindaH - March 21, 2010 | 3:10 pm · Link
@tyrese:
Well considering the real argument is “Don’t like abortion, vote for expanded health services to women, vote for more access to contraception, vote against abstinence only programs, vote for higher welfare payments to women with children so that they feel that they need to have an abortion to survive, vote for better daycare support so women can feel they will be able to support a child, and finally vote for universal health care so that women can afford to have a child” your “pro-choice” credentials need a large amount of brushing up. In fact, I would tend to guess that you are pro-choice only when making idiotic comments on blogs.
kay - March 21, 2010 | 3:11 pm · Link
@General Egali Tarian Stuck:
Correct me if I’m wrong, but the worldwide child rape scandal just reached the Pope.
I would think these folks would be busy shredding records and silencing witnesses, and such.
How they have a moment to be bickering over the language in an executive order, with The Bishops issuing Declarations is beyond me.
Unless those two things are related…..
SIA - March 21, 2010 | 3:13 pm · Link
@pseudonymous in nc: Ain’t it the truth! I was on a rant yesterday about everyone, everyone, in my Republican family has one form of nationalized healthcare or another. Myself and the other lone indie/liberal get to partake of the grand murrikan competitive free market.
Annie - March 21, 2010 | 3:14 pm · Link
@kay:
It is interesting that K-Lo hasn’t mentioned the child rape scandal. Doesn’t fit with her pious, rose-colored, blinders….
Nor, has she defended the nuns…......
Jenn - March 21, 2010 | 3:17 pm · Link
@jayackroyd:
I don’t like litmus tests. It’s not Stupak’s anti-abortion stance that’s bugging the heck out of me, it’s his holding health care hostage by grandstanding (and by not knowing what the hell he’s talking about). Anyway, I think the Republican tendency towards litmus tests may work well for them in the short term, but will produce poor policy over the long term. I don’t want to see the Dems follow their example.
SIA - March 21, 2010 | 3:18 pm · Link
This is why Nancy didn’t want to vote on the Senate bill. Here’s the 2nd GOP rep talking about the give aways that are being removed in the reconcilliation bill. Nice try, assholes.
These GOP fellas are certainly sleek and well groomed.
Dems are showing some cahones. Wouldn’t let Drier finish his little whine. Lovin’ it.
Rep Kildee up now. He’s a yes.
Ok. I can respect that.
General Egali Tarian Stuck - March 21, 2010 | 3:20 pm · Link
@kay: The wingnut world is in flux and crazed chaos, whether it’s the long conservative governance of The Catholic Church, or K-Lows neurotic ramblings, or the pig ignorant tea baggers and their BFF’s in congress. And they are holding the rest of us hostage, to prevent governing in a manner that human peeps with an ounce of common sense and true good will would agree with.
It is insane, but the forces with need for power and control and greed and fundamentalist religious belief will do all it can to keep the status quo, at least, and turn back the clock to the dark ages at most. This is what we are up against.
Annie - March 21, 2010 | 3:40 pm · Link
@General Egali Tarian Stuck:
They can hold us hostage because they control the religion card. As long as Republicans can hold onto and stayed married with the Religious Right, they can be as corrupt, as unprincipled and as anti-choice as they want. And, they will still draw huge crowds, and still attract all of the nuts that want to “Take America Back” from the blacks, the poor, progressives, hispanics, and all those who oppose the United Christian States of America.
SIA - March 21, 2010 | 3:41 pm · Link
Awww… that’s nice. Jack “Flag Pin” Kingston wants us to all work together for a bipartisan bill!
jayackroyd - March 21, 2010 | 3:41 pm · Link
@jenn
So you don’t buy the parallel with civil rights law? That you would not have a problem with a segregationist Democrat?
I can (barely) buy the idea that Dems should include Scoop Jackson types. But I cannot see why they would stomach Strom Thurmond types. And this strikes me as the same thing.
Roe is the law of the land, two generations old, less than a decade after the civil rights act. A Democrat can say he wants, what? To reverse Roe? This seems to me to be fundamentally at variance with Democratic politics. It is like a Republican who believes in state ownership of major industry.
ellaesther - March 21, 2010 | 3:47 pm · Link
I just finally had the chance to watch Obama’s address from yesterday, and man oh man, am I really loving him right now. (BTW, will our spell-check overlords EVER recognize the President’s name? I smell a vast right wing conspiracy!)
We were in the car for a few hours earlier today and so were catching the updates on CBS radio on AM, and I can’t tell you how pleased I am to report that the referred to deem and pass as “a fairly routine legislative procedure.”
Just glad to be hearing people speaking the truth, is all. And a little giddy as I await the vote.
ellaesther - March 21, 2010 | 3:50 pm · Link
Oh and John, I can’t tell you how grateful this old-hand pro-choice advocate and one-time utilizer of entirely legal abortion services is to men who say
I know a lot of men feel this way, but very few bother/are willing to say it out loud. Thanks.
kay - March 21, 2010 | 3:54 pm · Link
@General Egali Tarian Stuck:
The timeline of the worldwide child rape crime(s) doesn’t really fit with the timeline of the resurgence of conservative leadership in the Catholic Church.
Nope. I don’t think we can point to a more conservative leadership as a cause.
Looks systemic to me.
It’s been going on for 40 years, that we know of.
General Egali Tarian Stuck - March 21, 2010 | 4:02 pm · Link
@kay: Pope John Paul was considered a conservative and though he was beloved by many, he purposely conservatized the church. And I was not speaking of the actual criminal acts of child sexual abuse, but more the tendency to go to great lengths to cover it up. Which of course led to it exploding as bad priests were just shuttled from church to church, and new pedophile priests went the same route. Maybe a more liberal hierarchy would have done the same, but I don’t think so.
dr. bloor - March 21, 2010 | 4:07 pm · Link
@South of I-10:
Have you ever seen congressmen getting teabagged, Timmy?
Douglas - March 21, 2010 | 4:30 pm · Link
If you never refuse a human, you’re a principled cannibal.
If you make nop exception to your racial stereotypes for friends, you’re a principled racist.
If you’re a murderer who doesn’t kill adults, no matter what, then you’re a principled killed of children.
And if you try to kill your parties agenda which would save tens of thousands of people to force your relgigious beliefs down everyone else’s throat, you’re a principled asshole.
Being principled isn’t inherently good, it’s the principle that matters.
Nicole - March 21, 2010 | 4:41 pm · Link
It’s posts like this that remind me why visiting this blog has become part of my daily life. Thank you.
Triassic Sands - March 21, 2010 | 5:32 pm · Link
@jayackroyd:
Litmus tests in general: Jenn’s reaction is sound. There are a number of issues that could legitimately serve as litmus tests. Only a few Democrats might fail each test, but if each litmus test eliminates people, then what’s left is a permanent minority. Usually that isn’t the goal of an influential political party, i.e., one that has the potential to lead/run a country. It’s also what Republicans are toying with right now.
I don’t have time to fully address the Jim Crowe parallel, but…
Whether abortion is or isn’t parallel to Jim Crowe laws, it isn’t seen that way in this country by most people. That’s why guys like Tweety fall all over guests straining to impress everyone with how much they respect the
pro-choiceanti-women’s rights position.Ruckus - March 21, 2010 | 6:06 pm · Link
@Douglas:
This
American Grandstand « FIFTH COLUMN - March 21, 2010 | 6:44 pm · Link
[...] By Hippie Killer John Cole: I’m getting really tired of the media portrayal of anti-choice Democrats as “principled.” [...]
Corner Stone - March 21, 2010 | 7:32 pm · Link
@American Grandstand « FIFTH COLUMN:
That is fucking priceless.
Corner Stone - March 21, 2010 | 7:34 pm · Link
@jayackroyd:
It’s for women. Duh.
JoeBob - March 22, 2010 | 1:14 pm · Link
I’m pro-choice. But the “Don’t like abortion? Don’t have one.” line of argumentation is idiotic. Don’t like slavery? Don’t have a slave.
Agreed, it’s incoherent and illogical.
Don’t like murder? Don’t murder someone.
Don’t like armed robbery? Don’t be a robber.
And so on and so on.
“Don’t like abortion? Don’t have one.” is a bumper-sticker slogan. Bumper-sticker slogans are not generally known as good examples of critical thinking. Bumper-sticker slogans are all about eliciting an emotional response.
Austin Nedved - March 23, 2010 | 4:35 pm · Link
If you’re pro-life in the sense that you believe in equal rights for the unborn, you probably aren’t going to support hormonal contraception. It’s the same thing as abortion. Personally, I would support higher welfare payments to women with children, but I would support making the father pay for it. I’m not a big fan of daycare, but I do support mandatory maternity coverage in health insurance programs.
You wouldn’t see a contradiction in believing that embryos have the same rights as everyone else, and supporting drugs that directly killed them?