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Open Thread

by John Cole

I hate moving, but I am seriously glad I am too busy to have to follow the ups and downs that you all are going through while following this. From where I sit, which is to say, having just checked the headlines at the blogs I read, it sure seems to me like Stupak’s abortion gambit has run its course, Pelosi has the votes, and they have decided to skip deem and pass and just go for it.

Also, in what will surely come as a shock to Matt Welch and the rest of the glibertarians at Reason, it appears that some of the teabaggers are racist, homophobic louts threatening violence. No shit. And all along Reason told me they were just worried about big government (when Democrats provide it, of course).

Also, make sure to check the petitions to the right.

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March 20, 2010 6:41 pm Posted in: Open Thread  154 Comments

154 Responses

  1. demkat620 - March 20, 2010 | 6:44 pm · Link

    Moving sux indeed. Cheers John!

    I am going out to lift a few. I’ll have one for you.

    So you got that going for you.

  2. jeffreyw - March 20, 2010 | 6:45 pm · Link

    I promised someone a steak dinner today.

  3. Mike Kay - March 20, 2010 | 6:45 pm · Link

    Lie down with FireDogLakes, and you’ll get fleas.

    http://www.dailykos.com/storyo.....has-Become

  4. Lowkey - March 20, 2010 | 6:49 pm · Link

    I’m about to post this to my regrettably large Facebook following. It includes a link to this page, so I felt I should post it here for thoughts from the community before I put it live. What do you think?

    Thanks! Lowkey

    Attention, please, my fellow liberals, Democrats, and anyone interested in seeing more than 30 million Americans get access to healthcare, while everone else who isn’t a millionaire gets insurance that can’t drop them if they get sick, or disallow them if they’ve ever been pregnant or broken a leg… Speaker Pelosi has announced that they won’t be pursuing the deem-and-pass method of passing the Senate Health Care Reform bill. This means that we have 216 votes in the House, and 50 + the Vice President in the Senate. We’re likely to actually pass this bill. It’s actually going to slash the budget defecit. It’s not perfect. Arguably, it’s not even good. But, it’s not bad, not bad at all. The bill is certainly hard medicine to swallow, and not the last dose of medicine that we will need to take; but, it is medicine that we would be foolish not to take.

    Our Congressmen and women are taking a beating over the phones, and through letters and faxes, from Tea Partiers and other conservatives that believe that it will allow the ATF to confiscate their guns. Others that believe that it will give the government the power to decide who lives and dies, from the womb to the hospice. Others still that believe that the bill represents a complete conquering of 1/6th of the national economy by the public sector.

    I count many of these worried people, passionate, intelligent, patriotic and honest people, among my dear friends and esteemed colleagues. They remain my friends, colleagues, and countrymen and women, but I disagree. They are incorrect by all of my estimations.

    If you happen to agree with me; if you are a liberal, that thinks that being less than rich is no sufficient reason that becoming sick should destroy your livelihood; if you are a Democrat, that is remotely interested in regaining the public’s faith that the government can do good, and thereby keep winning elections; if you simply believe that having the taxpayer and the private citizen continue to pay emergency room bills for people that cannot afford to pay them out of pocket themselves is unsustainable; I urge you, call or fax your Representative and Senators today, and let them know that they need to vote yes.

    You probably won’t get through right away. The lines are jammed. I give the Tea Partiers credit, in that they are determined and well-organized, but every voice matters. The Congressmen and women’s staffs are languishing under a wave of ugly calls from opponents. Every positive voice, no matter how infrequent, helps tremendously, in giving succor to the conviction that these people are doing the right thing.

    In the spirit that I count many opponents of the bill among those that I respect, I invite you to comment below. I invite, and ask you to call, or continue to call, our Congressmen and women, and express your views as well. As damaged as our system is, I believe that we all, liberal and conservative, Democrat and Republican, are currently engaged in the process of healing it.

    Find the office number for your Representative here.

    http://www.house.gov/zip/ZIP2Rep.html

    Find the office numbers of your Senators here.

    http://www.senate.gov/

    Many offices are open today, despite other indications, pending the vote on the bill. If you’d prefer to send a fax, here is a site that can do it for free over the internet.

    http://faxzero.com/

    If you’ve never spoken to an office of a member of Congress, there is a guide to help you have your voice heard, care of one of my favorite libtard blogs.

    http://www.balloon-juice.com/2.....eminder-2/

    Thank you for your attention, no matter who you are. I hope that we can discuss the issue without rancor below. Please be aware that if this thread degenerates into a hateful flamewar, I will delete the enitre post. I could not stay quiet, but I will not contribute to a fanning of already overheated flames.

    Love, Lowkey

  5. Jim, Foolish Literalist - March 20, 2010 | 6:49 pm · Link

    @Mike Kay:
    Wow.

    Funny to see him quoting Lincoln here. He was happily gushing about Reagan and Tip O’Neill on St Patrick’s day. Gooper all the way.

    Nothing like a keen grasp of history brought to an important event like St Patrick’s Day. I wonder if this great thinker brought this kind of powerful analysis to the annual T-Giving Turkey Pardon (which is probably the bit of political schtick I hate most and if Obama pulled the plug on it, I’d max out in donations).

  6. General Egali Tarian Stuck - March 20, 2010 | 6:49 pm · Link

    Pelosi has the votes, and they have decided to skip deem and pass and just go for it.

    That’s pretty much it. Last night though, Jane and her FDL posse made a last ditch attempt to bullshit us a deal was made with Stupak to get his vote, and later obama will gut Roe V Wade with an Executive Order. The whole thing nearly gave me the vapors . Fuck them royally and they can saddle up with their new BFF one of which gave a shout out last night. Guess who? They are dead to me.

    Update: Well, I never thought I’d encourage you to go to Firedoglake, but there is some must-read reporting on the late-night negotiations over the abortion funding issue. And it isn’t good:

  7. Jim, Foolish Literalist - March 20, 2010 | 6:50 pm · Link

    and, also, too, Zack Space is cordially invited to suck on the ass of a dead rat found in a wet alley.

  8. tavella - March 20, 2010 | 6:52 pm · Link

    Ran through the call list a couple of times, though I only got through to two. I remain unthrilled at the bill and think that the combination of mandates and no option but the health industry will be very bad politics down the line (as well as incredibly destructive to people), but at this point the bill is set and if it doesn’t get done nothing will get done. Either on health or anything else.

    Not looking forward to the next few years as the health industry uses all their much demonstrated creativity to simultaneously suck up the maximum in subsidies while screwing as many people possible out of health care, though. While the state insurance regulators continue to prove incapable of reining them in any way. There’s going to be a lot of miserable stories for the Republicans to run on. I can only hope that the people who do manage to get health care will outweigh them.

  9. Anonsters - March 20, 2010 | 6:54 pm · Link

    @General Egali Tarian Stuck:

    and later obama will gut Roe V Wade with an Executive Order.

    Well, to be fair, the EO bit wasn’t entirely wrong:

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/.....01941.html

  10. gbear - March 20, 2010 | 6:56 pm · Link

    @tavella:

    Jeez, do you tell your friends to make sure they include the return receipt with your holiday gifts too?

  11. Martin - March 20, 2010 | 6:56 pm · Link

    @General Egali Tarian Stuck: Well, the PUMAs had to go somewhere…

  12. beltane - March 20, 2010 | 6:57 pm · Link

    @General Egali Tarian Stuck: Odd. I always thought Jane Hamsher was more of the Ann Coulter type.

  13. General Egali Tarian Stuck - March 20, 2010 | 6:57 pm · Link

    @Anonsters: Oh crappola. The EO would be nothing more than affirming the Hyde Amendment, or existing law preventing direct payment of tax dollars for abortion.

  14. arguingwithsignposts - March 20, 2010 | 6:58 pm · Link

    Because it was very late in the previous thread, Lady Smudge at rest. I understand there are people concerned at the size of Obama’s package being rammed down their throats. Good!

  15. sukabi - March 20, 2010 | 6:58 pm · Link

    @tavella: the silver lining in this, is that the insurance cos will be the cause of their own deaths (massive, uncontrolled quest for profits)... and there will have to be a massive expansion of medicare or a single payer program in the near future to cover all the folks that have been priced out of the market…

  16. Phyllis - March 20, 2010 | 6:59 pm · Link

    In the all politics is local vein, the Vote No folks (who btw lost on Tuesday in our school bond referendum) are now saying the School Board should nullify the results because the vote was so close, even though there were more yes votes than no-and we only needed one more yes than no for it to pass. I’m sure if the Vote Yes side had lost by only one vote, they’d be saying the same thing,

  17. General Egali Tarian Stuck - March 20, 2010 | 6:59 pm · Link

    Awwe. Smudge is a darling. Your doing good dude!!

  18. Brien Jackson - March 20, 2010 | 6:59 pm · Link

    @General Egali Tarian Stuck:

    I love how disingenuous righties are. And how they don’t even try to hide it.

  19. John O - March 20, 2010 | 7:00 pm · Link

    I hate moving so bad I haven’t even thought about it for 10 years.

    Dweezil and the cats making progress here.

    He’s growing fast.

  20. mcc - March 20, 2010 | 7:00 pm · Link

    @tavella: I think the insurance companies will be very creative finding loopholes in the new regime, I think there will be other parts of the bill they outright ignore and have to be dragged to court over. It’s going to be necessary to watch this carefully and probably pass in a few years patches to close loopholes we don’t even realize are there yet. But I think this would be the case absolutely regardless of how the bill was written, we’re altering a very large, complicated system with an imperative to protect itself and no plan will perfectly predict how it will react. So this is not going to be something that passes tomorrow and it’s over. Tomorrow is day one of a forty year project. The important thing above all else is we are deciding as a nation this is a project we are taking on, as of tomorrow the government points at health care and says “this is our job to fix”.

  21. Anonsters - March 20, 2010 | 7:01 pm · Link

    @General Egali Tarian Stuck:

    Note the emphasis I placed on “entirely.” They were right. There is an E.O. in our future. Of course, what it says is another matter entirely.

  22. Mike Kay - March 20, 2010 | 7:03 pm · Link

    I can’t believe they’re not ramming Single Payer through!!

    Btw, if we did move to a single payer system, wouldn’t that effectively overturn Roe V Wade for middle and low income women. After all, no federal financing of abortion, would prevent a single payer system from covering abortion.

    Funny, how the self-centered-pie-in-the-sky-hippies never think of that when they spout off about their single payer panacea.

  23. PeakVT - March 20, 2010 | 7:03 pm · Link

    Tired of the ugliness? Try these. Health care inspiration. Interspecies snorgling. Sidewalk art win.

  24. Phyllis - March 20, 2010 | 7:05 pm · Link

    And No Iowa is leading Kansas by ten.

  25. Anonsters - March 20, 2010 | 7:06 pm · Link

    @Mike Kay:

    Or the principle of Roe, combined with single-payer, would mean that the Hyde Amendment would have to be struck down. (Not that I think our conservative court would do so.)

  26. John O - March 20, 2010 | 7:07 pm · Link

    I only got in one pool this year, and have KS going to the final, and I really hope N. Iowa continues to kick their ass.

    I predicted a St. Mary’s win 5 minutes into the game.

  27. Citizen_X - March 20, 2010 | 7:07 pm · Link

    Moving suuuuuuuuuuucks. I can’t imagine it with a sore shoulder, John. You have my sympathy. (For what that’s worth.)

  28. Annie - March 20, 2010 | 7:09 pm · Link

    @General Egali Tarian Stuck:

    I hope you took a hot shower after you read that crap…

  29. Mike Kay - March 20, 2010 | 7:09 pm · Link

    @beltane: alot of their fan base has always been based on their looks. yes, the wingers think coulter is good looking. and yes, the hippies think jane twiggy is cute.

  30. jeffreyw - March 20, 2010 | 7:10 pm · Link

    John O
    AWS

    Now you’ve done it, made me go all artsy-fartsy on ya.

  31. Annie - March 20, 2010 | 7:11 pm · Link

    @arguingwithsignposts:

    Lady Smudge after a day of making phone calls to Congress…She’s thinking, “I hope, I hope, I hope….”

  32. beltane - March 20, 2010 | 7:12 pm · Link

    @Mike Kay: That certainly explains why Hamsher is given so much TV time.

  33. Jim, Foolish Literalist - March 20, 2010 | 7:21 pm · Link

    Dave Weigel:

    Briefly, unfairly considering how Fox would cover the efforts of thousands of screaming black people to enter the House offices.
    about 4 hours ago via Tweetie

    I don’t know why this would be “unfair”.

  34. Cat Lady - March 20, 2010 | 7:21 pm · Link

    @Mike Kay:

    and why Scott “dumb as a hammer” Brown was elected.

  35. Tappen - March 20, 2010 | 7:21 pm · Link

    Fuck. Are Matheson, Space and Cao freaking anyone else out? Or is that just proof leadership has the votes and are letting them go?

  36. Mike Kay - March 20, 2010 | 7:23 pm · Link

    @Anonsters:

    not at all.

    you can still have legal abortion, only you would have to pay for it out of pocket, without any federal dollars.

  37. Mary - March 20, 2010 | 7:23 pm · Link

    Well…since you’re pushing new petitions…I don’t suppose there is any chance you guys might get behind a phone campaign to ask the Senate and Congress to support our President and military on Israeli settlements? You did such a beautiful job on healthcare.

    AIPAC and the Christian Zionists are doing massive campaigns for the settlements. MJ Rosenberg said the best way to counter AIPAC was letters to the editor and in-person meetings with Congress but still…getting this effort on Middle East peace started based on your proven successful organic rather than donation-driven model of calling Congress on healthcare would be really cool.

    Time is somewhat of the essence because AIPAC is circulating a letter for signature in the House started by Kirk and Carney and in the Senate started by Boxer and Isaacson. AIPAC is in town right now lobbying in person (and by phone) for signatures on those letters. See here. http://tpmcafe.talkingpointsme...../#comments

    Added bonus. Jane Hamsher and Glenn Greenwald and their ilk might not mock you over this.

  38. Mike Kay - March 20, 2010 | 7:25 pm · Link

    @Cat Lady:

    Exactly.

    And it’s the same reason why the pie-in-the-sky-hippies supported a war monger like Saint Edwards instead of a fellow pie-in-the-sky-hippie like Kucinich.

  39. robertdsc - March 20, 2010 | 7:25 pm · Link

    and yes, the hippies think jane twiggy is cute.

    The picture she uses at HuffPo is cute but otherwise, meh. I’m still starbursty for the wild Alaskan Dingbat. (c) Alan Grayson.

  40. Jim, Foolish Literalist - March 20, 2010 | 7:25 pm · Link

    @General Egali Tarian Stuck: Sweet fucking christ. Seems like every other day I learn something that makes me dislike her more. I wonder that some of her contributors don’t bail. Does she pay them?

  41. Mike Kay - March 20, 2010 | 7:26 pm · Link

    @Mary: wow. this puts Sirota (AIPAC lackey) at odds with fellow bomb throws jane twiggy and Tail Gunner Glenn

  42. Lowkey - March 20, 2010 | 7:28 pm · Link

    @Lowkey: Hate to do it, but my post is still at the top of the thread, after moderation let it go. I’m not sure it’s getting eyeballs. Please let me know what you think, I really want to put anyone I can onto the positive call list. I’ll let it go if this doesn’t generate any attention.

    I just wanna be loved, darnit!

  43. JenJen - March 20, 2010 | 7:29 pm · Link

    I’ve taken a few spins around the conserva-blogs today and have yet to find one that even mentions the Clyburn, Lewis and Frank incidents.

    In other news, K-Lo’s twitter feed has been outrageously entertaining all day.

  44. Anonsters - March 20, 2010 | 7:29 pm · Link

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    Not everyone at FDL is worthy of scorn.

    EW, for example, does the consistently best, most thorough reporting on national security-type issues I’ve seen. And that includes print journalists.

  45. Anonsters - March 20, 2010 | 7:32 pm · Link

    @JenJen:

    I posted the link to TPM in a comment thread on Volokh Conspiracy, which is a blog run by law professors who are mainly libertarian or moderate conservatives (with one or two bomb-throwers).

    The only person (commenter) to respond (so far that I’ve seen) said:

    Not at all responsive to your contention, and Barny Frank is a faggot, FWIW, wasn’t so long ago that political correctness hadn’t stifled spirited expression.

    there’s only one thing you can do and that’s walk into the shrink wherever you are, just walk in say “Shrink, You can get anything you want, at Alice’s restaurant.”. And walk out. You know, if one person, just one person does it they may think he’s really sick and they won’t take him. And if two people, two people do it, in harmony, they may think they’re both faggots and they won’t take either of them. And three people do it, three, can you imagine, three people walking in singin a bar of Alice’s Restaurant and walking out. They may think it’s an organization. And can you, can you imagine fifty people a day,I said fifty people a day walking in singin a bar of Alice’s Restaurant and walking out. And friends they may thinks it’s a movement.

  46. Tom Hilton - March 20, 2010 | 7:32 pm · Link

    @beltane: Has anyone else noticed that Hamsher hasn’t appeared on Maddow (who gave her a good percentage of her early TV exposure) since she went all Firebagger? Good for Rachel.

  47. mr. whipple - March 20, 2010 | 7:33 pm · Link

    @Tom Hilton: Yup.

  48. robertdsc - March 20, 2010 | 7:35 pm · Link

    Sirota (AIPAC lackey)

    Got any backup for that? Separately, Sirota was pimping public option lunacy this morning. The reality disconnect was jarring.

  49. Comrade Javamanphil - March 20, 2010 | 7:35 pm · Link

    Moving sucks. But the first cocktail in the new place is awesome. I’m finally at that place tonight. Good luck, John.

  50. J.W. Hamner - March 20, 2010 | 7:36 pm · Link

    Why didn’t anyone tell me that CBS was streaming March Madness? Nice quality too.

    Go Go Northern Iowa!

    EDIT: I seem to have jinxed them. Whoops.

  51. JenJen - March 20, 2010 | 7:37 pm · Link

    @Anonsters: Oh, my.

  52. Duane - March 20, 2010 | 7:38 pm · Link

    Well I consider Congressman Zack Space a personal friend, but damn after this I am going to have a damn hard time doing a single thing to help him get elected. Well other than vote for him, I suppose. I know he somehow thinks this is going to win him support of the screaming maniacs…. but sadly it won’t.
    Congressman I am damn disappointed in you.

    Duane

  53. freelancer - March 20, 2010 | 7:38 pm · Link

    @Anonsters:

    Not to mention TBogg and Ackerman among others.

  54. Jim, Foolish Literalist - March 20, 2010 | 7:40 pm · Link

    @Anonsters: I’d add Ackerman to the list, and everyone says D-Day (?) is doing great work over there. And some of the best snarkers in the internet are part of the stable. And Thers. But when you’re being favorably linked to by Malkin, and you’re actively associated with Grover “Date Rape” Norquist, don’t you start to wonder about the company you’re keeping?

  55. Mike Kay - March 20, 2010 | 7:40 pm · Link

    @robertdsc:

    link

    http://www.uwishunu.com/2008/0.....-uprising/

    where was sirota pimping today?

    ps he loves to set his hair on fire and scream ‘i’m a victim” Poor baby, he obviously didn’t get enough attention as a kid.

  56. Xanthippas - March 20, 2010 | 7:40 pm · Link

    Thanks to the fact that I’m at work, I have entirely too much time at a computer to follow this today. Otherwise I’d be blissfully ignorant, but still just as happy when it passes.

  57. Mike Kay - March 20, 2010 | 7:44 pm · Link

    @Lowkey:

    nice post!

  58. freelancer - March 20, 2010 | 7:46 pm · Link

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    jinx! buy me a Coke.

    Does anyone have a link to the President’s remarks to the Democratic Caucus?

    ETA: Nevermind, it’s on the White House site. For any interested:
    http://www.whitehouse.gov/phot.....are-reform

  59. MikeJ - March 20, 2010 | 7:46 pm · Link

    Yea Washington! Yea No Iowa!

  60. mr. whipple - March 20, 2010 | 7:46 pm · Link

    @Anonsters:

    “Not everyone at FDL is worthy of scorn.

    EW, for example, does the consistently best, most thorough reporting on national security-type issues I’ve seen. And that includes print journalists.”

    Agreed. I’ve always loved TBogg, too. But the way I see it, if I go there I generate hits/money for FDL and I wouldn’t do that any more than going to RedState if they employed a reasonable columnist.

  61. PaulW - March 20, 2010 | 7:47 pm · Link

    If I can say anything, it’s that I am not at all surprised by the violent rhetoric of the teabaggers now that the bill looks like it’s going to pass. After a year and a half of getting riled up by the rage merchants on FOX News, they’re going to vent and in the worst way.

  62. Snarky Pickles - March 20, 2010 | 7:47 pm · Link

    I was able to get through to two of my area Dems (neither my district), and both offices seemed to be glad I’d called. There are only three House Dems in my part of Texas, but all three seem to be solidly on board. Thanks to John and all for pushing on getting us to call.

    And, too, also, you gotta love it when the opposition is reduced to plagiarizing trademarked catch phrases from Comedy Central as their slogans.

  63. cay - March 20, 2010 | 7:48 pm · Link

    Ready to ship your Japan prints in 10 days and happy to have a student on capitol hill working for a congressman (D-WA) who says that HCR is a done deal. Champagne ready…

  64. mr. whipple - March 20, 2010 | 7:48 pm · Link

    @freelancer:

    http://www.cspan.org/Watch/Med.....EGINS.aspx

    Enjoy!

  65. John Cole - March 20, 2010 | 7:48 pm · Link

    I’m just hoping FDL comes out swinging on the right side of financial reform and targets the 45 or so people in the Senate who are the real problem, and not the WH.

    A man can hope.

  66. J.W. Hamner - March 20, 2010 | 7:48 pm · Link

    66-62 Northern Iowa, 23.4 seconds left… Northern Iowa ball. Just sayin’.

  67. Hal - March 20, 2010 | 7:48 pm · Link

    Myths about the Canadian Healthcare System:

    http://www.denverpost.com/recommended/ci_12523427

    Myth: There are long waits for care, which compromise access to care.There are no waits for urgent or primary care in Canada. There are reasonable waits for most specialists’ care, and much longer waits for elective surgery. Yes, there are those instances where a patient can wait up to a month for radiation therapy for breast cancer or prostate cancer, for example. However, the wait has nothing to do with money per se, but everything to do with the lack of radiation therapists. Despite such waits, however, it is noteworthy that Canada boasts lower incident and mortality rates than the U.S. for all cancers combined, according to the U.S. Cancer Statistics Working Group and the Canadian Cancer Society. Moreover, fewer Canadians (11.3 percent) than Americans (14.4 percent) admit unmet health care needs.

  68. Mike Kay - March 20, 2010 | 7:49 pm · Link

    @freelancer:

    here ya go:

    http://www.c-span.org/Watch/Me.....EGINS.aspx

  69. Mary - March 20, 2010 | 7:50 pm · Link

    @Tom Hilton: Rachel knows that Jane is corrupt. There is no doubt she got paid for her obstructionism and tea-party coziness. The Ralph Nader model on a lesser scale, as it were.

    She had a post the other day howling at the moon that passing this bill would further marginalize progressives. She said their blog traffic is down and their donations are down.

    Uh huh.

    It’s pretty clear what her business model has become and will be henceforth—ratfucker for money.

  70. Snarky Pickles - March 20, 2010 | 7:50 pm · Link

    @John Cole:

    I’m just hoping FDL comes out swinging on the right side of financial reform

    Can we primary Jane Hamsher?

  71. JenJen - March 20, 2010 | 7:52 pm · Link

    OMG, Kansas. WTF!!

  72. Snarky Pickles - March 20, 2010 | 7:53 pm · Link

    @PaulW:

    If I can say anything, it’s that I am not at all surprised by the violent rhetoric of the teabaggers now that the bill looks like it’s going to pass. After a year and a half of getting riled up by the rage merchants on FOX News, they’re going to vent and in the worst way.

    I really, really want to point out why you’re wrong about that last part, but I don’t think you are.

  73. General Egali Tarian Stuck - March 20, 2010 | 7:53 pm · Link

    I’ll be damned. Kansas goes down. My brackets are already busted, but it means if Kentucky can win tonight and get to the final 4, they have a better chance of winning the title/

  74. freelancer - March 20, 2010 | 7:53 pm · Link

    @mr. whipple:
    @Mike Kay:

    Thanks guys, I found it on the White House site about 3 seconds after I clicked submit on my post. This “google” thing, I think, is gonna be pretty big someday. I’d keep an eye out for it.

    ETA: Sometimes, I think O missed his calling. (Don’t get me wrong, we need him doing this job.) But I think if he would have been a bit sillier, more wayward, he would have made for a killer standup comedian.

  75. Mike Kay - March 20, 2010 | 7:53 pm · Link

    @Snarky Pickles:

    Hopefully, for the good of the country, she’ll resign.

  76. mr. whipple - March 20, 2010 | 7:54 pm · Link

    Wow. #1 seed goes down.

    This is a year of upsets.

  77. Lowkey - March 20, 2010 | 7:56 pm · Link

    @Mike Kay: Thanks! I spent the morning trying to get through to Reps Scott (D-VA3) and Nye (D-VA2) and Sens Warner and Webb (D-VA). I felt a force multiplier would be more productive than trying to get through by myself. It’s been a little frustrating lately, in my home state, that’s become an oven for for hot, fresh, flaky wingnuttery. I have steam to vent.

  78. J.W. Hamner - March 20, 2010 | 7:56 pm · Link

    Maryland better beat Michigan State tomorrow… or I will be dispirited.

  79. mcc - March 20, 2010 | 7:56 pm · Link

    @mr. whipple: Wait.

    In round one?

    Wouldn’t they be up against the #16 team or something?

  80. Neutron Flux - March 20, 2010 | 7:57 pm · Link

    @J.W. Hamner:

    Down goes Frazier! Down goes Frazier!

    No need for me to waste time checking the tournament now.

  81. demo woman - March 20, 2010 | 7:57 pm · Link

    Congratulations to Northern Iowa fans.

  82. Snarky Pickles - March 20, 2010 | 7:58 pm · Link

    @Tom Hilton:

    Has anyone else noticed that Hamsher hasn’t appeared on Maddow (who gave her a good percentage of her early TV exposure) since she went all Firebagger? Good for Rachel.

    Good for the nation.

  83. Jenn - March 20, 2010 | 8:00 pm · Link

    @Lowkey:

    I think it’s a great idea, though I don’t know how much longer phones will be staffed, or when the vote will be tomorrow. But even if it’s not workable for this go-round, I think it would be useful for future issues/legislation, both for discussing info and for prompting calls to reps/senators.

  84. Axel Edgren - March 20, 2010 | 8:00 pm · Link

    Uh-uh.

    I ain’t exhaling yet.

    Don’t tempt me to exhale.

  85. The Dangerman - March 20, 2010 | 8:01 pm · Link

    I’m guessing no Kansas Representative is voting “yes”.

    Payback, Fuckers.

  86. mcc - March 20, 2010 | 8:02 pm · Link

    Oh, wait, round 2.

    Still something like a 1-in-50 event for a #9 to beat a #1 though.

  87. Mike Kay - March 20, 2010 | 8:02 pm · Link

    @Lowkey:

    you look back on this one day with the pride of knowing you were a part of history.

  88. freelancer - March 20, 2010 | 8:03 pm · Link

    @demo woman:

    Just UNI.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v0sxMMsDgtM

    FYWP - did this last night too, kept eating posts where I linked to YouTube. WTF!

  89. Cain - March 20, 2010 | 8:03 pm · Link

    GOS thread on Obama’s speech has turned into a big Obot party. I think people are looking forward to the re-election campaign.

    Damn awesome speech, the guy really knows how to get people motivated to vote for healthcare. Knows how to close on the whole thing. Goddam, he makes me proud to be an American. You know those europeans are jealous they don’t get someone like Obama.

    I’m ready for the next thing he tackles. Let’s do it!

    cain

  90. South of I-10 - March 20, 2010 | 8:03 pm · Link

    @jeffreyw: Now that is just mean! I’m jealous.

  91. J.W. Hamner - March 20, 2010 | 8:04 pm · Link

    Wow, and Washington is obliterating New Mexico by 19. Glad I didn’t do a bracket this year.

    EDIT: It might be the purple/blue uniform mojo is working.

  92. CalD - March 20, 2010 | 8:04 pm · Link

    @Duane:

    Space is likely getting a safe vote on this. The fact that he’s announcing as a Nay at this hour is probably just means that Mrs. Pelosi has the votes she needs. At that point she’d start giving the nod to people she had on tap if she needed them, but didn’t necessarily want to have taking one for the team.

    It wouldn’t surprise me if she’s actually had this in the bag for days and has just been working on lining up the best package of trade-offs she could make. Some of the apparent hold-outs may want something, some are more vulnerable than others in their districts and Pelosi seems to be all about economy of force.

  93. John O - March 20, 2010 | 8:04 pm · Link

    I still think Jane is operating from the perspective of a dead woman.

    I used to try to figure out when you were going to die, and put a price on it.

  94. General Egali Tarian Stuck - March 20, 2010 | 8:05 pm · Link

    From Tea Party Central

    Tea Party Patriots issued an e-mail advisory stating that citizens will “surround the Capitol by 12 noon on Sunday prior to the vote,” adding: “Some are calling for the Republicans to walk out and stand with the people. This will be a powerful moment in the history of our nation.”

    Lordy, what could go wrong here? All this to stop 30 million uninsured Americans from getting health care. What a country.

  95. gogol's wife - March 20, 2010 | 8:06 pm · Link

    @Lowkey:

    I thought it was a very good letter, very well written.

  96. mcc - March 20, 2010 | 8:07 pm · Link

    @General Egali Tarian Stuck:

    Some are calling for the Republicans to walk out and stand with the people

    Oh man.

    If we can somehow actually get a photo with John Boehner and the Obama-Hitler-Moustache sign in the same frame, the 2010 elections are over.

  97. martha - March 20, 2010 | 8:07 pm · Link

    @Mary: Gosh, she’s surprised that her traffic is down (and the donations that follow)? Well duh. Many of us used to read FDL pretty regularly (front pagers) but cannot take it any more. She’s the leader and she chose to take her organization in the wrong direction. The question is, can she make amends and turn it around? We’ll see.

  98. Jim, Foolish Literalist - March 20, 2010 | 8:08 pm · Link

    “Some are calling for the Republicans to walk out and stand with the people.

    Wouldn’t put it past them. Anybody know what constitutes a quorum in the House? Would they stop the vote if they did walk out?

  99. tesslibrarian - March 20, 2010 | 8:09 pm · Link

    Here’s a big part of the problem: The Misinformed Tea Party Movement.

    Not that this piece of misinformation is capable of being corrected—any evidence to the contrary is part of a conspiracy by Wall Street (such as this Forbes column) and/or the liberal media and/or Obama’s commufascist death panels and/or who knows what else.

  100. mr. whipple - March 20, 2010 | 8:10 pm · Link

    @J.W. Hamner:

    I think a ton of people, including experts, wish they had just flipped a coin for each pick.

  101. Mike Kay - March 20, 2010 | 8:10 pm · Link

    @John O: is that why she put Loserman in patently offensive Minstrel Man black face?

    Face it, she’s always been a fuckup.

  102. Jim, Foolish Literalist - March 20, 2010 | 8:10 pm · Link

    @Mary:

    She had a post the other day howling at the moon that passing this bill would further marginalize progressives. She said their blog traffic is down and their donations are down.

    It’s true. Barack Obama personally came to my house and installed a thuggish Chicago block on my computer so I can’t go to FDL anymore

  103. Lowkey - March 20, 2010 | 8:11 pm · Link

    @Jenn: At this point, seeing as I’m fairly encouraged that the Speaker actually has the votes for this round, I feel it’s as much for the reconciliation votes, and November, as the upcoming House vote.

    That being said, even if this bill falls apart, I want our Congresscritters’ staffs hearing some appropriate voices from our side, instead of solely a landslide of furious Teabagger shouts.

    Reasoned practicality fever, CATCH IT!

  104. robertdsc - March 20, 2010 | 8:12 pm · Link

    @Mike Kay:
    Sirota PO lunacy. Dude just doesn’t get how it’s going down. He’s way behind the curve.

    By the way, speaking of Maddow, my mom had a comment for me the other day that made me laugh: she said Rachel was beautiful. Yeah, Mom. I know. [swoons for Rachel]

  105. Snarky Pickles - March 20, 2010 | 8:12 pm · Link

    @CalD:

    Space is likely getting a safe vote on this. The fact that he’s announcing as a Nay at this hour is probably just means that Mrs. Pelosi has the votes she needs. At that point she’d start giving the nod to people she had on tap if she needed them, but didn’t necessarily want to have taking one for the team.

    TPM says that Speaker Pelosi was aware of his “no” vote, but didn’t clear him to do so.

    It wouldn’t surprise me if she’s actually had this in the bag for days and has just been working on lining up the best package of trade-offs she could make.

    Hope so. She does seem to be perpetually underestimated. There’s some speculation that the whole “deem-and-pass” thing was big head fake from the beginning.

  106. Mike Kay - March 20, 2010 | 8:13 pm · Link

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    They got rid of the quorum call in the house around 1895.

  107. General Egali Tarian Stuck - March 20, 2010 | 8:13 pm · Link

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: I really don’t know how that works in the House. Interesting question. But doing so could be considered an act of insurrection, I am guessing. Maybe we could ask this lady.

    I think her answer was yes.

  108. TR - March 20, 2010 | 8:13 pm · Link

    @martha:

    Many of us used to read FDL pretty regularly (front pagers) but cannot take it any more.

    Yep. I don’t read Grover Norquist either.

  109. Jim, Foolish Literalist - March 20, 2010 | 8:14 pm · Link

    @Mike Kay: hmmmm….. I guess I oughta get around to reading that stack of old newspapers

    I need to check how my Almagamated Spats stock is doing, anyway

  110. kth - March 20, 2010 | 8:16 pm · Link

    @tesslibrarian: I know Bartlett has a regular column at Forbes, but it really took stones for him to publish that teabagger-debunking fusillade at Glibertarian Central, which Forbes is.

  111. Lowkey - March 20, 2010 | 8:16 pm · Link

    @Mike Kay: I try! It’s the best way I’ve found yet to deal with our new ultra-God-botherer Governor, Attorney General, and Legislature. I knew this was probably coming, thanks to Virginia’s long and facepalm-worthy history of freaking out at whomever’s in power trying to do things.

  112. Annie - March 20, 2010 | 8:17 pm · Link

    @General Egali Tarian Stuck:

    Tomorrow also is a rally for immigration rights. It will be great if pictures and the press have Republicans standing with the “wrong” people…

  113. gwangung - March 20, 2010 | 8:18 pm · Link

    @J.W. Hamner: Yeah, but the problem is that UW’s next opponent will probably be West Virginia. Eep…

  114. jeffreyw - March 20, 2010 | 8:18 pm · Link

    South of I-10
    Peace offering?

  115. Karen - March 20, 2010 | 8:18 pm · Link

    @Mike Kay

    Lie down with FireDogLakes, and you’ll get fleas.

    I’m taking bets for when THEY use the N word for Obama.

    If this bill passes tomorrow, I figure this will be President Obama’s new name: “That lying N!”

    I hope I’m wrong. But if the FDL people can get into bed with Grover Norquist, who knows?

    I don’t get it. They hate Obama because he doesn’t do everything they deem is necessary to be a Democrat but they’re pals with Norquist who is everything I’d think Jane Hamsher would be against.

  116. General Egali Tarian Stuck - March 20, 2010 | 8:20 pm · Link

    @Annie:

    Tomorrow also is a rally for immigration rights

    Sounding more and more like tomorrow is going to be a day of truth or consequence/

  117. Anonsters - March 20, 2010 | 8:21 pm · Link

    @Karen:

    I’m taking bets for when THEY use the N word for Obama.

    If this bill passes tomorrow, I figure this will be President Obama’s new name: “That lying N!”

    One can take one’s reflexive dislike into sillyland, you know.

  118. mr. whipple - March 20, 2010 | 8:21 pm · Link

    Tomorrow also is a rally for immigration rights. It will be great if pictures and the press have Republicans standing with the “wrong” people…

    That could get interesting.

  119. Lowkey - March 20, 2010 | 8:21 pm · Link

    @gogol’s wife: Thank you! Okay, I’m starting to feel pretty good about posting this. AVANTE!

  120. Snarky Pickles - March 20, 2010 | 8:22 pm · Link

    Tea Party Patriots issued an e-mail advisory stating that citizens will “surround the Capitol by 12 noon on Sunday prior to the vote,” adding: “Some are calling for the Republicans to walk out and stand with the people. This will be a powerful moment in the history of our nation.”

    Bring it, bitches. It will be like the time the Soviets decided to boycott the U.N. Security Council in 1950, and in doing so missed the opportunity to veto the U.N. sending troops into South Korea to push back the North Korean army. Oops.

    The Constitution provides (Art. I, Sec. 5, Cl. 1) that a majority of the House constitutes a quorum.

  121. BR - March 20, 2010 | 8:22 pm · Link

    @robertdsc:

    Speaking of Sirota, some time ago I fixed his heavily self-promoting and sanitized wikipedia page to include criticisms of him, but he just went back in and edited out the criticisms and added back in the nonsense.

  122. Cain - March 20, 2010 | 8:25 pm · Link

    By the way Ross Douthat (chunky reese witherspoon) got his ass kicked on letters to the editor from the Oregonian for three days running. Hahaha.. asshole.

    cain

  123. Lowkey - March 20, 2010 | 8:26 pm · Link

    @Lowkey: ROFL, of course, it’s only 9 times too long to be a Faceyspace status update. Well, a note is somewhat okay, I suppose.

  124. LuciaMia - March 20, 2010 | 8:29 pm · Link

    “Some are calling for the Republicans to walk out and stand with the people

    Oh, yay. And are these fearless government patriots gonna re-christian French fries back to Freedom fries again? Our boys at Valley Forge would have been so proud!

  125. Jim, Foolish Literalist - March 20, 2010 | 8:30 pm · Link

    I was curious to see what was up at FDL. I was wondering who would be the first to declare Obama dead for that thing somebody on the internet said he might do

    White House Executive Order: F&%k You to Planned Parenthood, DeGette Undecided About Sign-Off
    By: Jane Hamsher Saturday March 20, 2010 11:37 am

  126. Mike Kay - March 20, 2010 | 8:37 pm · Link

    @BR:

    What did ya say, it sounds priceless.

  127. debit - March 20, 2010 | 8:37 pm · Link

    @LuciaMia: I am sure walking out is all part of their clever plan. You see, when it becomes obvious that HCR is wildly popular, they can say they didn’t vote against it. Of course, it won’t help them when their opponent runs an ad showing them with the teabaggers protesting it, but they probably haven’t thought that far ahead.

  128. FlipYrWhig - March 20, 2010 | 8:38 pm · Link

    @BR:

    Speaking of Sirota, some time ago I fixed his heavily self-promoting and sanitized wikipedia page to include criticisms of him, but he just went back in and edited out the criticisms and added back in the nonsense.

    Is there anything associated with Sirota that isn’t heavily self-promoting and sanitized? Such a wannabe, that guy.

  129. Axel Edgren - March 20, 2010 | 8:38 pm · Link

    Republicans going out to stand with “the people” (yeah, you aren’t part of “the people” if you ain’t out to protest)?

    Shame the weather will be good in DC tomorrow.

  130. beltane - March 20, 2010 | 8:38 pm · Link

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: But just yesterday Jane was complaining about both Planned Parenthood and NARAL being useless sellouts, in effect saying “F*#k You” to them. She’s not even consistent in her trollery; it’s just all Obama hate all the time.

    Any bets on when she has Larry Johnson join FDL?

  131. Dannie22 - March 20, 2010 | 8:40 pm · Link

    @ Mike Kay

    How ya doin? Looks like your real popular now! Tomorrow is a big day. I never thought I’d be excited to watch cspan, but I am.

    Take care young man. I’m watching Cleopatra Jones. No more news til tomorrow. Bye!

  132. 4tehlulz - March 20, 2010 | 8:42 pm · Link

    Capuano is a yes.

  133. Martian Buddy - March 20, 2010 | 8:44 pm · Link

    @Snarky Pickles: That reminds me of the article I saw earlier on Red Steak calling for HCR opponents to vote “present” rather than “no” as a show of contempt. Alas, even Erickson’s readership was smart enough to realize that was a bad idea.

  134. Lowkey - March 20, 2010 | 8:45 pm · Link

    @Axel Edgren: Doesn’t seem like a shame to me. I’m heading up to demonstrate for passage, hope to see as many of you there as can be.

  135. sukabi - March 20, 2010 | 8:47 pm · Link

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: and tomorrow THAT will be the next “proof he’s a facist, marxist, mobster” in a long line of nutty theories to travel the web.

  136. CalD - March 20, 2010 | 8:48 pm · Link

    @Snarky Pickles:

    If I were guessing (and I guess I am) I’d guess the “deem and pass” thing was real enough. Whether that was born of a perceived necessity that turned out to not to be necessary or just another case of the House leadership looking to get a bill passed by the most expedient possible means, then dropping the idea when it turned into a political liability is a question I can’t answer. I guess one more possibility might have been to win over people who opposed the senate bill from the left in stages…

    But if Democrats had the kind of marketing/PR savvy it would take to pull off the head fake thing, wouldn’t it have been easier to just do the deem and pass thing and not screw up the roll-out? I’d be much more inclined to believe they just forgot that the Republican PR machine exists (again) while cooking up that up than that they’ve suddenly all turned into 11-dimensional chess masters.

  137. mcc - March 20, 2010 | 8:48 pm · Link

    There’s some speculation that the whole “deem-and-pass” thing was big head fake from the beginning.

    CSPAN claims the proximate reason for dropping deem and pass is they got a ruling from the Senate Parlimentarian saying they can vote on the reconciliation bill first.

  138. Mary - March 20, 2010 | 8:50 pm · Link

    @Lowkey: I think I’ll go too. I want to bear personal witness to what is really driving those people and to represent the other side.

  139. Brien Jackson - March 20, 2010 | 8:50 pm · Link

    @beltane:

    Watching Jane thrash is funny anyway.

  140. John O - March 20, 2010 | 8:52 pm · Link

    @Mike Kay:

    Just agree to disagree, Mike. She’s maniacally passionate, and all those people blow it from time to time.

    I don’t trust anyone with whom I agree all the time.

    She’s out of her mind on this one, but I love it when she’s out of her mind on something I buy in to. shrug

    Emergency basketball alert! I just saw John Wall hit an open three!

    He’s a little too big for his britches, IMHO, and he had better stick around at KY and learn how to make a lot of threes before he comes out, or guys like Dwayne Wade and even Kirk Heinrich are going to have his lunch.

  141. SiubhanDuinne - March 20, 2010 | 8:52 pm · Link

    @jeffreyw

    I love your food pictures (well, I love all your pictures) and every single time, no matter what the dish, I laugh out loud at the “mmm. . . ”

    Mmm . . . Pancakes
    Mmm . . . Shrimp
    Mmm . . . Coffee
    Mmm . . . Bread
    Mmm . . . Beef Wellington
    Mmm . . . Tomato surprise
    Mmm . . . Ice cream

    See, it doesn’t matter. It’s just charming.

  142. South of I-10 - March 20, 2010 | 8:52 pm · Link

    @jeffreyw: Looks better than the delicious spinach salad I had.

  143. Texas Dem - March 20, 2010 | 8:53 pm · Link

    Anyone know what the latest whip count is? Do they have the votes?

  144. Karen - March 20, 2010 | 8:54 pm · Link

    @Anonsters

    One can take one’s reflexive dislike into sillyland, you know.

    I hope you don’t think that I hate President Obama, far from it. I was realistic when I voted for him because I’m a pragmatist who understands you can’t get everything but I wanted someone I agreed with more than someone I hated (McCain.)

    If you mean my reflexive dislike of FDL and Jane Hamsher, guilty as charged. I didn’t always feel that way. But when she joined forces with Grover Nordquist because she viscerally hated Obama that much, I could no longer respect her. I only ventured into sillyland with her because when I went to the link Mike Kay provided I which had quotes from the FDL concerning Obama’s speech.

    I hope it’s sillyland but to be honest, if you told me last year that a brick was thrown into a congresswoman’s office window because there might be HCR passed, I’d have thought you were crazy.

    It’s 2010 but to a lot of people it’s the 50s.

  145. jeffreyw - March 20, 2010 | 8:56 pm · Link

    SiubhanDuinne
    South of I-10

    Mmmm…ladies.

  146. John O - March 20, 2010 | 8:56 pm · Link

    @Texas Dem:

    I’ve assumed they had the votes since they announced the vote, and assume it will be a one vote margin, giving maximum slack to maximum pussies.

  147. John O - March 20, 2010 | 9:01 pm · Link

    Just for the record, I think Jane has slipped her leash.

    But 5 years ago, she was someone I greatly respected, and my experience in these matters tells me she didn’t change, but that my perception of her was bad, or that something dramatic happened to her for her to throw sanity to the wind, which there but for the grace of FSM goes just about everyone I’ve ever known.

  148. Hal - March 20, 2010 | 9:03 pm · Link

    The Republicans will go stand with the people, just like George Wallace circa 1963. They are on the wrong side of history again.

  149. Texas Dem - March 20, 2010 | 9:04 pm · Link

    I’ve assumed they had the votes since they announced the vote, and assume it will be a one vote margin, giving maximum slack to maximum pussies.

    It would be awfully stupid to schedule a vote if you don’t actually have the votes, but then again I assumed Scott Brown wouldn’t win in Mass, so what do I know. By the way: for a party that’s about to lose an historic vote, the GOP is looking pretty confident right now.

  150. Mary - March 20, 2010 | 9:04 pm · Link

    Good luck with your move John, especially for poor Tunch. It’s really hard for cats hate to move. I’m sure he’d rather stay and let you go. My heart goes out to him.

  151. J.W. Hamner - March 20, 2010 | 9:05 pm · Link

    Lets go K-state… I like upsets, but I can’t root for Mormons.

  152. SiubhanDuinne - March 20, 2010 | 9:14 pm · Link

    @jeffreyw

    You are very funny.

  153. Lowkey - March 20, 2010 | 9:32 pm · Link

    @Mary: Where are you coming from? If it’s south of DC, feel like caravanning? I find political activism so much more pleasant when I have like minded lefty ACORN traitor scumbag union thugs to pregame with.

  154. Mary - March 20, 2010 | 10:32 pm · Link

    @Lowkey: Oh Lowkey. I live in Bethesda, Maryland. We could maybe work something out if you like.

    Did you hear that Maryland seceded from the South yesterday?


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