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	<title>Comments on: Kaplan&#8217;s latest hire</title>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Steeplejack</title>
		<link>http://www.balloon-juice.com/2010/03/06/kaplans-latest-hire/#comment-1611729</link>
		<dc:creator>Steeplejack</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 Mar 2010 20:51:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.balloon-juice.com/?p=35634#comment-1611729</guid>
		<description>@&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-1611705&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Jonny Scrum-half&lt;/a&gt;:
&lt;blockquote&gt;
The battle of Peleliu was where one of my wife’s relatives earned the Silver Star, and we’re going to purchase the book to read about that campaign. (He won’t discuss it except in the most vague terms.)
&lt;/blockquote&gt;
If you read Sledge&#039;s book you will understand why.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@<a href="#comment-1611705" rel="nofollow">Jonny Scrum-half</a>:</p>
<blockquote><p>
The battle of Peleliu was where one of my wife&#8217;s relatives earned the Silver Star, and we&#8217;re going to purchase the book to read about that campaign. (He won&#8217;t discuss it except in the most vague terms.)
</p></blockquote>
<p>
If you read Sledge&#8217;s book you will understand why.</p>
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		<title>By: Steeplejack</title>
		<link>http://www.balloon-juice.com/2010/03/06/kaplans-latest-hire/#comment-1611721</link>
		<dc:creator>Steeplejack</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 Mar 2010 20:45:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.balloon-juice.com/?p=35634#comment-1611721</guid>
		<description>@&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-1611693&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;WereBear&lt;/a&gt;:

&lt;i&gt;The Pacific&lt;/i&gt; is being done by the same people who did &lt;i&gt;Band of Brothers&lt;/i&gt;, which I thought was excellent, but I am wondering about them possibly &quot;softening&quot; things. The Pacific campaign was horrific. Unlike Europe, much of it was fought on islands uninhabited or lightly inhabited by civilians, so it was total war. (Not that civilians were spared. There were mass suicides of civilians on Okinawa, a Japanese &quot;home&quot; island, because they had been brainwashed to think the Americans were going to torture and kill everyone.) The Japanese had a long history of atrocities from the very beginning of the war, and too often the Americans responded in kind. The Japanese military saw themselves as members of a master race, and the Americans saw the Japanese as &quot;monkeys&quot; or &quot;yellow Nips.&quot; As I said before, it had elements of a race war.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@<a href="#comment-1611693" rel="nofollow">WereBear</a>:</p>
<p><i>The Pacific</i> is being done by the same people who did <i>Band of Brothers</i>, which I thought was excellent, but I am wondering about them possibly &#8220;softening&#8221; things. The Pacific campaign was horrific. Unlike Europe, much of it was fought on islands uninhabited or lightly inhabited by civilians, so it was total war. (Not that civilians were spared. There were mass suicides of civilians on Okinawa, a Japanese &#8220;home&#8221; island, because they had been brainwashed to think the Americans were going to torture and kill everyone.) The Japanese had a long history of atrocities from the very beginning of the war, and too often the Americans responded in kind. The Japanese military saw themselves as members of a master race, and the Americans saw the Japanese as &#8220;monkeys&#8221; or &#8220;yellow Nips.&#8221; As I said before, it had elements of a race war.</p>
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		<title>By: TuiMel</title>
		<link>http://www.balloon-juice.com/2010/03/06/kaplans-latest-hire/#comment-1611717</link>
		<dc:creator>TuiMel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 Mar 2010 20:42:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.balloon-juice.com/?p=35634#comment-1611717</guid>
		<description>Whenever I think about Pelilieu, I always think of this:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/2a/US_Marine_in_Action_at_Peleliu_Island_1944.gif

A thousand words as they say...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Whenever I think about Pelilieu, I always think of this:</p>
<p><a href="http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/2a/US_Marine_in_Action_at_Peleliu_Island_1944.gif" rel="nofollow">http://upload.wikimedia.org/wi.....d_1944.gif</a></p>
<p>A thousand words as they say&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Jonny Scrum-half</title>
		<link>http://www.balloon-juice.com/2010/03/06/kaplans-latest-hire/#comment-1611705</link>
		<dc:creator>Jonny Scrum-half</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 Mar 2010 20:32:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.balloon-juice.com/?p=35634#comment-1611705</guid>
		<description>Steeplejack @ 110 -- I completely agree with your first paragraph.  Also, thanks for the book recommendation.  The battle of Pelilieu was where one of my wife&#039;s relatives earned the Silver Star, and we&#039;re going to purchase the book to read about that campaign.  (He won&#039;t discuss it except in the most vague terms.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Steeplejack @ 110&#8212;I completely agree with your first paragraph.  Also, thanks for the book recommendation.  The battle of Pelilieu was where one of my wife&#8217;s relatives earned the Silver Star, and we&#8217;re going to purchase the book to read about that campaign.  (He won&#8217;t discuss it except in the most vague terms.)</p>
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		<title>By: WereBear</title>
		<link>http://www.balloon-juice.com/2010/03/06/kaplans-latest-hire/#comment-1611693</link>
		<dc:creator>WereBear</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 Mar 2010 20:15:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.balloon-juice.com/?p=35634#comment-1611693</guid>
		<description>@&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-1611663&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Steeplejack&lt;/a&gt;: I am sure I will read the book first, since I no longer have HBO, and will have to wait for it to appear through some other outlet for the filmed version.

It&#039;s inevitable to make comparisons in any case, and I prefer reading the book first.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@<a href="#comment-1611663" rel="nofollow">Steeplejack</a>: I am sure I will read the book first, since I no longer have <span class="caps">HBO</span>, and will have to wait for it to appear through some other outlet for the filmed version.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s inevitable to make comparisons in any case, and I prefer reading the book first.</p>
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		<title>By: Steeplejack</title>
		<link>http://www.balloon-juice.com/2010/03/06/kaplans-latest-hire/#comment-1611663</link>
		<dc:creator>Steeplejack</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 Mar 2010 19:39:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.balloon-juice.com/?p=35634#comment-1611663</guid>
		<description>@&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-1611651&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;WereBear&lt;/a&gt;:

I have been thinking about rereading it in advance of the HBO series. I&#039;m not a huge military history buff, but it is a damn good book. Sledge joined the Marines in December 1942 at age 19 and saw combat on Peleliu and Okinawa. He kept handwritten notes in a Bible that he carried with him, then worked on the book on and off for years before it was published.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@<a href="#comment-1611651" rel="nofollow">WereBear</a>:</p>
<p>I have been thinking about rereading it in advance of the <span class="caps">HBO</span> series. I&#8217;m not a huge military history buff, but it is a damn good book. Sledge joined the Marines in December 1942 at age 19 and saw combat on Peleliu and Okinawa. He kept handwritten notes in a Bible that he carried with him, then worked on the book on and off for years before it was published.</p>
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		<title>By: WereBear</title>
		<link>http://www.balloon-juice.com/2010/03/06/kaplans-latest-hire/#comment-1611651</link>
		<dc:creator>WereBear</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 Mar 2010 19:21:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.balloon-juice.com/?p=35634#comment-1611651</guid>
		<description>@&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-1611603&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Steeplejack&lt;/a&gt;: On your rec, I got that for my Kindle, but am keeping it for a good long stretch of time.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@<a href="#comment-1611603" rel="nofollow">Steeplejack</a>: On your rec, I got that for my Kindle, but am keeping it for a good long stretch of time.</p>
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		<title>By: Redshift</title>
		<link>http://www.balloon-juice.com/2010/03/06/kaplans-latest-hire/#comment-1611610</link>
		<dc:creator>Redshift</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 Mar 2010 18:39:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.balloon-juice.com/?p=35634#comment-1611610</guid>
		<description>At least the title of the book is accurate. Just not in the way Thiessen thinks it is...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>At least the title of the book is accurate. Just not in the way Thiessen thinks it is&#8230;</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Steeplejack</title>
		<link>http://www.balloon-juice.com/2010/03/06/kaplans-latest-hire/#comment-1611603</link>
		<dc:creator>Steeplejack</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 Mar 2010 18:32:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.balloon-juice.com/?p=35634#comment-1611603</guid>
		<description>@&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-1611552&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Jonny Scrum-half&lt;/a&gt;:
&lt;blockquote&gt;
But I had a conversation with some older relatives last week—one a former peacetime Marine and the other a Korean war veteran—who complained matter-of-factly that people were making a big deal out of how we treat detainees when during WW2 it wasn’t uncommon simply to kill enemy troops rather than take them as prisoners (at least in the Asian theater, according to another relative who earned a Silver Star for his actions in the Pacific).
&lt;/blockquote&gt;
Horrible things happen in wartime, but that they happen doesn&#039;t make them okay. And it certainly doesn&#039;t make it okay to extrapolate them from a conventional, &quot;declared&quot; war to a gray area that probably should be treated not as a war but as a criminal law enforcement issue with some military aspects. The &quot;war on terror&quot;--WTF does that even mean? As long as there is one crazy person anywhere who is willing to throw a bomb in aid of his cause, the war is not over. Good times. Compare and contrast with, say, how various European governments dealt with the bomb-throwing radicals of the &#039;70s.

In many ways the Pacific campaign in World War II was a race war, with both sides seeing the other as subhuman. It was extremely brutal. I highly recommend &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0891419063&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;E.B. Sledge&#039;s memoir &lt;i&gt;With the Old Breed&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/a&gt; (1981) as an eloquent, chilling account of infantry combat in the Pacific. It is one of the source documents for the upcoming HBO miniseries &lt;i&gt;The Pacific&lt;/i&gt;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@<a href="#comment-1611552" rel="nofollow">Jonny Scrum-half</a>:</p>
<blockquote><p>
But I had a conversation with some older relatives last week&#8212;one a former peacetime Marine and the other a Korean war veteran&#8212;who complained matter-of-factly that people were making a big deal out of how we treat detainees when during <span class="caps">WW2</span> it wasn&#8217;t uncommon simply to kill enemy troops rather than take them as prisoners (at least in the Asian theater, according to another relative who earned a Silver Star for his actions in the Pacific).
</p></blockquote>
<p>
Horrible things happen in wartime, but that they happen doesn&#8217;t make them okay. And it certainly doesn&#8217;t make it okay to extrapolate them from a conventional, &#8220;declared&#8221; war to a gray area that probably should be treated not as a war but as a criminal law enforcement issue with some military aspects. The &#8220;war on terror&#8221;&#8212;WTF does that even mean? As long as there is one crazy person anywhere who is willing to throw a bomb in aid of his cause, the war is not over. Good times. Compare and contrast with, say, how various European governments dealt with the bomb-throwing radicals of the &#8216;70s.</p>
<p>In many ways the Pacific campaign in World War II was a race war, with both sides seeing the other as subhuman. It was extremely brutal. I highly recommend <a href="http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0891419063" rel="nofollow">E.B. Sledge&#8217;s memoir <i>With the Old Breed</i></a> (1981) as an eloquent, chilling account of infantry combat in the Pacific. It is one of the source documents for the upcoming <span class="caps">HBO</span> miniseries <i>The Pacific</i>.</p>
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		<title>By: Jonny Scrum-half</title>
		<link>http://www.balloon-juice.com/2010/03/06/kaplans-latest-hire/#comment-1611595</link>
		<dc:creator>Jonny Scrum-half</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 Mar 2010 18:24:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.balloon-juice.com/?p=35634#comment-1611595</guid>
		<description>WereBear -- I hope you&#039;re right, but my experience with my relatives suggests that &quot;the will of the voters&quot; might not lean the way you and I would like.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>WereBear&#8212;I hope you&#8217;re right, but my experience with my relatives suggests that &#8220;the will of the voters&#8221; might not lean the way you and I would like.</p>
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		<title>By: WereBear</title>
		<link>http://www.balloon-juice.com/2010/03/06/kaplans-latest-hire/#comment-1611589</link>
		<dc:creator>WereBear</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 Mar 2010 18:15:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.balloon-juice.com/?p=35634#comment-1611589</guid>
		<description>@&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-1611552&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Jonny Scrum-half&lt;/a&gt;: Yes, I agree:

&lt;blockquote&gt;But I’m concerned that the people who have authorized and are attempting to legitimize the wrongful treatment of detainees (and even torture) are going to end up destroying at least some of the ideals upon which America was founded.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

But that is how we can make it a pivotal moment; if we can create a groundswell of opposing thought. And I think we are.

At some point, a focus will be reached and we can set our (the voter&#039;s) natural will in motion. Because there&#039;s no question that the Senate is thwarting the will of the majority of voters. So it doesn&#039;t matter that the Senate was designed that way. It&#039;s been doing it way too much lately.

Time for some separation of powers.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@<a href="#comment-1611552" rel="nofollow">Jonny Scrum-half</a>: Yes, I agree:</p>
<p>
<blockquote>But I&#8217;m concerned that the people who have authorized and are attempting to legitimize the wrongful treatment of detainees (and even torture) are going to end up destroying at least some of the ideals upon which America was founded.</p></blockquote>
<p>But that is how we can make it a pivotal moment; if we can create a groundswell of opposing thought. And I think we are.</p>
<p>At some point, a focus will be reached and we can set our (the voter&#8217;s) natural will in motion. Because there&#8217;s no question that the Senate is thwarting the will of the majority of voters. So it doesn&#8217;t matter that the Senate was designed that way. It&#8217;s been doing it way too much lately.</p>
<p>Time for some separation of powers.</p>
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		<title>By: Mike G</title>
		<link>http://www.balloon-juice.com/2010/03/06/kaplans-latest-hire/#comment-1611556</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike G</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 Mar 2010 17:36:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.balloon-juice.com/?p=35634#comment-1611556</guid>
		<description>&lt;em&gt;I’m sitting in the Empire State Building. Michael, I’m sitting in the Empire State Building, which has been in the past, and could be again, a target...Although you are on the front line, this was the front line four and a half years ago.&lt;/em&gt;

Shorter Huge Assclown Hewitt:
I&#039;m standing on the very ground where the Battle of the Teutoburg Forest was fought between the Romans and the Germanic tribes in 9AD. This makes me practically a Centurion and an expert on all military matters.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><em>I&#8217;m sitting in the Empire State Building. Michael, I&#8217;m sitting in the Empire State Building, which has been in the past, and could be again, a target&#8230;Although you are on the front line, this was the front line four and a half years ago.</em></p>
<p>Shorter Huge Assclown Hewitt:<br />
I&#8217;m standing on the very ground where the Battle of the Teutoburg Forest was fought between the Romans and the Germanic tribes in 9AD. This makes me practically a Centurion and an expert on all military matters.</p>
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		<title>By: Jonny Scrum-half</title>
		<link>http://www.balloon-juice.com/2010/03/06/kaplans-latest-hire/#comment-1611552</link>
		<dc:creator>Jonny Scrum-half</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 Mar 2010 17:32:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.balloon-juice.com/?p=35634#comment-1611552</guid>
		<description>I agree with everyone here who says that the way we&#039;ve treated &quot;detainees&quot; is shameful and not consistent with what I understood to be American ideals.  But I had a conversation with some older relatives last week -- one a former peacetime Marine and the other a Korean war veteran -- who complained matter-of-factly that people were making a big deal out of how we treat detainees when during WW2 it wasn&#039;t uncommon simply to kill enemy troops rather than take them as prisoners (at least in the Asian theater, according to another relative who earned a Silver Star for his actions in the Pacific).

My relatives live in wealthy East-coast suburbs.  They are intelligent, thoughtful people.  They are not the stereotypical &quot;teabagger&quot; or &quot;redneck&quot; types.  But they are almost reflexively incapable of looking at things even somewhat objectively, without the &quot;American exceptionalism&quot; blinders that have so distorted our world view.

I understand that sometimes people have to take horrible action in order to prevent or oppose even greater evil.  But I&#039;m concerned that the people who have authorized and are attempting to legitimize the wrongful treatment of detainees (and even torture) are going to end up destroying at least some of the ideals upon which America was founded.  Once you say that torture is not only acceptable, but appropriate if it might save innocent lives, there&#039;s really no intellectually honest reason not to use the same techniques in law enforcement against criminal suspects.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with everyone here who says that the way we&#8217;ve treated &#8220;detainees&#8221; is shameful and not consistent with what I understood to be American ideals.  But I had a conversation with some older relatives last week&#8212;one a former peacetime Marine and the other a Korean war veteran&#8212;who complained matter-of-factly that people were making a big deal out of how we treat detainees when during <span class="caps">WW2</span> it wasn&#8217;t uncommon simply to kill enemy troops rather than take them as prisoners (at least in the Asian theater, according to another relative who earned a Silver Star for his actions in the Pacific).</p>
<p>My relatives live in wealthy East-coast suburbs.  They are intelligent, thoughtful people.  They are not the stereotypical &#8220;teabagger&#8221; or &#8220;redneck&#8221; types.  But they are almost reflexively incapable of looking at things even somewhat objectively, without the &#8220;American exceptionalism&#8221; blinders that have so distorted our world view.</p>
<p>I understand that sometimes people have to take horrible action in order to prevent or oppose even greater evil.  But I&#8217;m concerned that the people who have authorized and are attempting to legitimize the wrongful treatment of detainees (and even torture) are going to end up destroying at least some of the ideals upon which America was founded.  Once you say that torture is not only acceptable, but appropriate if it might save innocent lives, there&#8217;s really no intellectually honest reason not to use the same techniques in law enforcement against criminal suspects.</p>
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		<title>By: WereBear</title>
		<link>http://www.balloon-juice.com/2010/03/06/kaplans-latest-hire/#comment-1611551</link>
		<dc:creator>WereBear</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 Mar 2010 17:32:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.balloon-juice.com/?p=35634#comment-1611551</guid>
		<description>@&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-1611542&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;asiangrrlMN&lt;/a&gt;: Fortunately, I think they are destroying people&#039;s trust in them as a good source of information. That&#039;s why the Daily Show and Colbert use how the news is handled as a point of satire, and might be doing more good for the public than any other shows on television now.

I know, it&#039;s surreal and highly ironic! These are the times we are apparently in.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@<a href="#comment-1611542" rel="nofollow">asiangrrlMN</a>: Fortunately, I think they are destroying people&#8217;s trust in them as a good source of information. That&#8217;s why the Daily Show and Colbert use how the news is handled as a point of satire, and might be doing more good for the public than any other shows on television now.</p>
<p>I know, it&#8217;s surreal and highly ironic! These are the times we are apparently in.</p>
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		<title>By: asiangrrlMN</title>
		<link>http://www.balloon-juice.com/2010/03/06/kaplans-latest-hire/#comment-1611542</link>
		<dc:creator>asiangrrlMN</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 Mar 2010 17:22:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.balloon-juice.com/?p=35634#comment-1611542</guid>
		<description>@&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-1611536&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;WereBear&lt;/a&gt;: It&#039;s appalling.  That&#039;s what it is.  Or rather, the appalling part is that the media (as a whole) laps it up.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@<a href="#comment-1611536" rel="nofollow">WereBear</a>: It&#8217;s appalling.  That&#8217;s what it is.  Or rather, the appalling part is that the media (as a whole) laps it up.</p>
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