Spongebob: (is in a Texas shape) Hey Patrick, what am I now?
Patrick: Uhh, stupid?
Spongebob: No, I’m Texas!
2.
General Winfield Stuck
That has to be from an Obot undercover ninja operative. They can’t be that dumb, can they?
3.
CT Voter
Words fail me. Homeschoolers or home scholars?
Homes cholers for Perry? Gut infections for Perry?
4.
Mark S.
Death to Soshalism!
5.
Molly
We’re just so proud of our Texas Teabaggers.
Sigh.
6.
General Winfield Stuck
Death to Soshalism!
Shirley not.
7.
mak
It’s about time. My “Get a brain, Morans” pic was getting a little stale.
8.
Violet
Heard on the top-of-the-hour news on a local AM station that Perry/Palin (or is it Palin/Perry?) is being touted as a strong combination for the Republican ticket in 2012. This was in the two minutes news break. Ugh. Stupid AM wingnut station. Speculation isn’t news.
Governor Goodhair and La Palin would be a very funny combination to watch, though. He’s not the brightest bulb in the box and she’s a loose cannon. Popcorn time!
9.
Osprey
I can’t remember who said it, but to paraphrase, “Idiot America is starting to stir, and Palin is their queen”.
10.
bayville
Thanks for the new screensaver.
11.
Jackie
I suppose you have all forgotten the many times homeschoolers have won the National Spelling Bee.
This is sad to me because I homeschooled my gifted kids to avoid the wretched public schools (couldn’t afford private school.) Once we figured out that it isn’t about schooling-at-home, but is instead an opportunity to let children follow their interests and passions, we settled in very happily. They started community college classes at age 13, got accepted at very selective colleges (Amherst, Pomona, Colgate, Middlebury, etc. ). Now one is a Berkeley-educated lawyer working on sustainable economics and sharing law (www.sharingsolution.com) and the other is a geologist working on environmental cleanup. This liberal, Democrat, atheist family found something wonderful in homeschooling. It’s a shame that so few people see the diversity and, in many cases, the excellence within the homeschool movement.
Oh, yeah, and I really hate those fundamentalist morans.
12.
Josie
It’s at times like this that I really miss Molly Ivins. She would have had such a good time with this. Other than that, words fail me.
13.
suzanne
Wow. That is WRONG. With a capital R.
14.
Violet
@Jackie:
Homeschooling varies in different parts of the country. I’ve got friends outside DC who homeschool their kids, as does a large part of the neighborhood, apparently, and they’re definitely not wingnut Christianist types. However, in Texas a lot of homeschooling is done for religious reasons. It doesn’t surprise me to see this sign at a Texas rally, although it’s sad.
15.
Molly
@General Winfield Stuck: It’s real. I sent it to John. Yes, they are this stupid. I’m amazed they got the ch right and didn’t make it a k.
It’s not homeschooling. It’s Texas Wingnut.
16.
licensed to kill time
__
A common medieval belief was that those prone to anger had an excess of yellow bile or choler (hence the word “choleric”).
I have a good friend who homeschools for the very reasons you mentioned, and she works like hell at it. Her kids are great.
It sounds like your experience was a while ago, and if you care about it, you should check back in.
The latest homeschooling horror is this: kids who get into trouble are being “homeschooled” by parents who have decided it’s easier to keep them home than actually respond to the problems they’re having in school.
Here, local public schools are treating this charade with a wink and a nod, because they’d rather not have kids who get into trouble in their school.
I talk to them. They want to go to school. They know they’re being shuttled to “homeschooling” because it’s easier than actually addressing their problems. The parents are buying these over-priced “packaged curriculum” and just leaving the kid unattended. It’s become a legitimate problem, and it discredits the whole idea, I would think.
I think states should revisit the whole issue of regulating this. It’s out of control, and it’s actually harming these kids.
20.
Tsulagi
Good to see Morans Guy has passed on the torch to a new group.
21.
Molly
@freelancer:Lol, you and I had the same thought when we saw it, “excellent Bj fodder. “
I think states should revisit the whole issue of regulating this. It’s out of control, and it’s actually harming these kids.
Texas has some of the fewest regulations on homeschooling in the country. Homeschooling parents seem to be happy about this and consider themselves fortunate from what I can tell from talking with a few of them. They don’t want the guvmint to tell them what to do with their kids. Apparently teaching their kids how to spell isn’t something they want to do either.
23.
Comrade Dread
Lern sum Engrish, wud u, peeples?
24.
Pangloss
There was a sign in DC against The Pubic Option. Or maybe it was just a leftover sign from when they were protesting sex education in schools.
25.
John Harrold
It’s kind of funny, and I know you probably didn’t mean it this way, but ‘fale’ is the Samoan word for home.
Don’t mention the non-fact that home-schoolers win the Spelling Bee a lot. It’s not fair.
Unlike students in public or private school, they can essentially devote all their time to studying words, while other kids usually have homework to do (disclaimer: I don’t think home-schooled kids actually spend all their time studying for competitions, but they definitely have more time available).
Actually, though, home-schooled kids don’t win the Spelling Bee all that much, although they get pretty far in the final rounds. The Geography Bee has more home-schooled winners, definitely.
27.
FlipYrWhig
Maybe the sign was made by little Cody and Kaitlyn Homescholer, whose parents Douglas and Maria Homescholer (née Hernandez) are very proud. Generation after generation, the Homescholer family–from Oskar and Hilde Hömescholer on down–remains steadfast in its dedication to the Republican party.
28.
KDP
@freelancer: And, speaking of C&L, they’ve just posted this gem. It doesn’t help that the Christianist, anti-gubmint homeschooling parents obtain their civics lessons from sources like these: Buy Land, Stock up on firearms, Anarchy is coming
I did elaborate research for a case in Michigan and Ohio. It was fascinating. I testified, and the homeschoolers were there, in the gallery. They were mad before I opened my mouth, and it didn’t get any better after I did.
I don’t have a problem with it, as an idea. I lean “conservative” on parent’s rights. I see that angle. I think parents have lots and lots of leeway. Like so many libertarian ideas, however, it veers into crazy pretty quickly.
We had truancy statutes for a reason, I am learning. We no longer enforce them, because homeschoolers have a powerful voice in state legislatures, but we might want to look at that again.
It’s also become quite the profitable venture. There are many, many programs to buy. The whole thing makes me sad. Here, they’re rural poor people. They didn’t do well in school, they dislike interacting with school, and there’s no “reward”, all they get is negatives on their kid.
Homeschooling has become a way to avoid all that. Public schools are all too eager to sign off. Kids who have trouble in school drag down the mean, and use resources.
Regulate, I say. Committed parents will comply, and non-committed parents shouldn’t be homeschooling.
31.
DanF
What’s worse, the person holding a misspelled sign touting an educational preference, or the fact that no one in the room was confident enough in their own spelling abilities to point out the error? Palm. On. Face.
32.
mr. whipple
I can’t spell for shit. How would I homeschool my kids?
I’m glad I just stuck with cats. No spelling.
33.
Legalize
I know that this is an uncomfortable topic, but it is not too late or too crazy to start planning the Great Austin Airlift.
@Jackie: Cool! Another HS mom, my kids are 8 & 11, I’m also atheist and homeschooling because the local system is “meh”. It’s not horrible, but it’s a very “aim low” culture, mostly about getting kids to sit still, and then go get some vo-tech training to work in one of the local warehouses…Private schools tend to be either Waldorf or Catholic. Yeah, Waldorf doesn’t work for me either, and Catholic, well…
We’re fortunate to have a co-op that’s secular, for just fooling around or doing interesting group things. Mostly, I just get out of my kids’ way, though I do find I have to flog them on certain things (*cough*math*cough) to make sure the skills are covered. Having the internet makes all of this a lot easier than I’d originally thought it would be, there are many great online options that we use. Community college will be a tool we’ll use as well. Unfortunately, our local county CC is very anti-hs but we have the option of a much BETTER facility that actively recruits homeschoolers. It’s a drive, but doable.
I do regret that I have no time/energy for my own career, but I’m hopeful that as the kids get older I’ll be able to re-visit that. I used to design and make fine jewelry, and have all my studio tools stored away.
You give Austin way too much credit. Everyone forgets that Austin is graded on a curve. We’re somewhat less insane than the rest of the state (by most standards, anyway), but we aren’t exactly functional, either.
38.
Citizen_X
@DanF: It’s not even one person that’s holding the sign, two people are holding it.
To show it off more proudly to the camera, I suppose.
I thought they meant “scholar” but then I realized I can’t spell either. I was eager to give them credit for that.
40.
FlipYrWhig
@Citizen_X: I’m telling you, each set of hands belongs to someone named “Homescholer,” thereby making it an accurate and entirely un-mock-worthy sign. ;D
41.
Jackie
Violet and Kay:
Nothing new here. I was at the forefront of the secular branch of the movement in California for 15 years, and I saw and heard it all. What I discovered is that homeschooling has an inherent accountability mechanism because the process itself selects out the failures. I observed that about half of families who try it quit within a few months’ to a year’s time. If the schools find a kid a real pain in the ass, the parents will too, especially when s/he is home all day and in their faces. The packaged curricula are big bores, and soon enough, the whole family is miserable. So they haul the kid back to school.
There’s another scenario that deserves notice. Many, many families pull their child out of school because the kid is being bullied by kids and/or teacher. Lots of kids need special handling: shy kids, kids with physical imperfections, kids with learning problems, kids with ongoing health problems–thankfully, homeschooling gives these kids an out from the torment.
More state regulation? Ha! They need to fix public education first before they will have any credibility with homeschoolers.
@Legalize: Good point. Where do I sign up for the organization committee? We’ll need an escape route come secession time.
43.
Bill E Pilgrim
If only Dan Quayle were there to correct the poor kid.
And just think, we used to joke that Quayle was a bad as it could get. Little did we know, he looks like an articulate genius in comparison to what the right is fielding these days.
I just made myself shudder extrapolating from that what Republican candidates will be like in around 2026. Yow.
44.
Pasquinade
Vigilance: I’m Banning Birfers, Truthers, and Groups Affiliated Therewith
Although not a fan of home schooling, I think this picture looks photoshopped. Although some are somewhat close minded at times, the parents that I know that home school are pretty intelligent. Most of the ones that I know home school because their children are extremely bright and the pace in the local public school system is too slow to for them, resulting in boredom. If they had the money to send their kids to a private school, they would.
50.
Bill E Pilgrim
@Pasquinade: That was the funniest thing I’ve read in a long time, thanks for that.
@mr. whipple: I once went on a not-quite-drunken rant about the absurdity of the letter C. Really it should just be the symbol for the sound we now indicate as “ch.” Tell the kid it’s all a conspiracy. Or tell the cid it’s all a konspirasy. Whichever.
52.
brantl
It’s too bad they didn’t go for the trifecta, with ‘fer’ and ‘Pary’ , isn’t it? But then, I guess that they couldn’t be that consistant, either.
Well, we disagree. I deal with high school age kids who were pulled out and given a canned curriculum, which they’re completing in an hour and a half, and they’re spending the rest of the day alone. They should have some say in the matter, and they don’t. Parents rights are really important, but so is the child’s right to attend school. I think it’s way out of balance, for that age group.
Again, I’m with you on the idea. I don’t think it has played out the way it was intended, here anyway. I don’t know who intervenes when it’s abused in this way. There aren’t any regulations, so no one does. I don’t think that’s fair.
@Jackie: Pretty much what Violet said about homeschooling in Texas. Usually they are fleeing from “religious persecution and coloreds.”
I went to a great public school, which afforded me the chance to attend a great private university.
In fact the high school I attended was #50 on the list of top high schools in the country referenced by U.S. News and World Report for 2009. It’s a public magnet school. You have to test well to get accepted. It’s always ranked somewhere within the top 200. There wasn’t any tuition to pay. ANd it was filled to brim with kids who were various different shades as well as different religions. And it’s in Houston.
But as for “homescholing” here… oy! And these dipshits want to change the history textbooks, and fill it with teabagger bullshit.
Guvenah Goodhair is worthless sack of beaver shit. My contempt for him, knows no bounds. I wish Ann Richards or Molly Ivins were alive.
I certainly don’t think there’s anything wrong with home-schooling provided that you are home-schooling with the goal of giving your kids a superior education in comparison to what they’d get at the local school. What I don’t approve of is home-schooling your kids out of a paranoid fear that the local school will expose them to ideas to which you object, which in some cases includes the idea that your child has some type of developmental problem that you refuse to deal with because of your own personal issues. Unfortunately, in my brief teaching career, I saw far too many of the latter situation and none at all of the first.
Although not a fan of home schooling, I think this picture looks photoshopped.
There are dozens of pics of this sign from various angles.
66.
Jackie
@kay:
Millions of kids have been ill-served by public schools for probably as long as there have been public schools. I know I was.
So a fraction of homeschoolers also screw up. Big deal. Why is the outrage always on the families who go their own way? A Nation At Risk was published in 1983, warning us that our public schools were failing miserably. They still are. Save your outrage for that, and let parents follow their own lights. At least when they screw up, it’s their own failure–not one imposed on them by an incompetent bureaucracy.
Also, kids may have right to an education (though I don’t know where that is written), but they do not have “a right to attend school.”
67.
scav
Come on, they’re just people at home raising toasts to Perry. Which explains why they can’t spell “Skål”.
And just think, we used to joke that Quayle was a bad as it could get. Little did we know, he looks like an articulate genius in comparison to what the right is fielding these days.
It’s not that Quayle is any smarter than Palin or the Teabaggers, it’s just that he’s way less violent. I guess Quayle had — and I never thought I’d hear myself say this — a fundamental decency.
There’s a level of cruelty, irresponsibility, and violent fantasy that’s been mainstreamed since then.
I haven’t run into a lot of religious objections, which probably means the religious parents here are doing an adequate job. I run into parents who pull their kid out of high school because their kid isn’t doing well, and schools call them in a lot.
Look, the fact is, homeschool is only going to be as good as the teacher. It was never the building, or the “amenities” or any of that. Teaching one human being something is the definition of hand’s on.
I personally am a lousy teacher, so I completely appreciate and admire good ones. If your parent is a lousy teacher, it isn’t going to go well. For older kids, I think they should have some say in getting to a school, when the experiment fails. For that, they need an adult to intervene, because they don’t have any rights. Without regulation, that isn’t going to happen.
Because the problem with lousy teachers is, they don’t know they’re lousy. My father says everyone thinks they are a great driver. I think there’s a little of that in play with teaching. Everyone went to school, so everyone thinks they can do this. Some of them can’t, or won’t.
We homeschooled for one year because we were in the process of moving and couldn’t see putting a sensitive 13-year-old through having to be introduced to two new groups of 8th grade kids.
It was a very enjoyable experience for all of us, I think, although I would have had to go outside for math help if we’d gone farther.
We were fortunate enough to have a really good private high school available that we could afford. But in some of the areas we’ve lived, the public schools are either really terrible (much of Hudson Co., NJ) or very high pressure (every kid has a personal athletics coach in parts of rich Bergen Co., NJ). Our kid would have floundered or been miserable in either — we were lucky enough to have a choice, but would have chosen homeschooling in a flash rather than subject our kid to clique-ridden rich-kid schools, or a school where the students jumped and murdered a teacher (I do not kid).
71.
gelfling545
From what I’m hearing about the textbooks in Texas, being in the public schools might have the same result.If ignorance is bliss, these people must be euphoric.
We are the Tea Party. We put the “K” in edukation!
73.
gogol's wife
@JGabriel:
I was about to defend Dan Quayle’s intelligence and then I saw this on TPM: Former Vice President Dan Quayle appeared on Fox News this afternoon to chip in his two cents on the health care debate. Namely, he warned that using the reconciliation process would set a “very bad precedent” because a simple majority is just unconstitutional.
“They’re gonna go to budget reconciliation, which I believe would set a very bad precedent, because essentially — if they could do it, and I don’t know if they can do it, but if they could do it — what you have done, effectively, is to take away the filibuster in the United States Senate,” Quayle said. “So, therefore, you have 51 votes in the House and 51 votes in the Senate. That is not what our Founding Fathers had in mind. That is not the constitutional process.”
I mean his speeches were often Titanic-level shipwrecks of monumental and terrible beauty, but I’m sorry, he never just launched into pure unbroken word salad for extended periods, like this:
..about the health care reform that is needed to help shore up our economy. Um, helping, oh, it’s got to be about job creation, too. Shoring up our economy, and getting it back on the right track. So health care reform and reducing taxes and reining in spending has got to accompany tax reductions, and tax relief for Americans, and trade — we have got to see trade as opportunity, not as, uh, competitive, um, scary thing, but one in five jobs created in the trade sector today. We’ve got to look at that as more opportunity. All of those things under the umbrella of job creation
Now that’s poetry!
Quayle also BTW had something like 12 years of experience, 8 as a member of Congress and 4 as a US Senator, before being tapped as VP. When people were claiming “she’s as inexperienced as Quayle” I thought er, nope.
75.
AkaDad
Dont mes with Texas.
76.
Bill E Pilgrim
@gogol’s wife: I stand corrected. He’s a real competitor. That was fantastic.
Whenever Dan Quayle does an “if this, therefore that” formation, the chances are upwards of 90% that it is going to be screwed up. Logic? He not so good at it.
@kay: I actually think I’m a bad driver, but that’s neither here nor there. I have a good friend who homeschooled two of her kids, and they are both bright, smart, ahead-of-their age girls (each skipped a grade). However, it was a lot of hard work, and she is a teacher for realz in the first place. I don’t have a problem with people wanting to homeschool if they actually can do it. I know I wouldn’t be able to do it, and from what I’ve seen, the reasons for doing it in Texas are far different from the reasons for doing it in other areas of the country. So, I agree there should be some regulations concerning homeschooling.
@Jackie: That’s true. You had the opportunity and the desire and the ability to homeschool. Good for you. Many people do not. Public schools in general do need fixing, but for many kids, it’s the only game going. It doesn’t have to be an either-or. You don’t have to disparage all public schools in order to justify homeschooling. There are many dedicated teachers in public schools who are trying their damnedest to do the right thing.
A Nation At Risk was shoddily researched conserva-porn put out by the Reagan Administration in order to undermine public support for the very idea of free, non-segregated public education. The view that “American schools are failing” was virtually non-existent prior to the publication of this screed which generated by a lot of angry old Republican men who were still pissed off at desegregation. Reagan and his cronies created it out of whole cloth in order to build support for the idea of dismantling public education in favor of vouchers to subsidize private schools which would then be free to discriminate against minority students.
84.
Cassidy
At one point in time, parents would be involved with there kids lives and find out what they learned that day in school. And if any glaring discrepancies or wrongness was found, it could be addressed. We didn’t need homeschooling until parents stopped doing that.
My father no longer drives, is how this subject came up. I’m thinking about making him sit in the back seat. I bought him an i-pod, but he won’t use it. He saw right through that. How can he tell me how to drive if he’s listening to music? He has to operate the “brakes”.
As I said, my good friend does a great job. He kids are fab, although the little girl-child now wants to go to school.
Because she wants to go on the bus.
87.
Jackie
@kay:
Sorry, Kay, but it’s not about “teachers.” It’s about letting the curiosity that each of us is born with be given free reign–especially if you can preserve it before some preschool/kindergarten teacher gets a chance to stomp on it.
I sent both of my kids to kindergarten knowing how to read at about a 3rd grade level. I showed the teachers. So what did the teachers do? They gave the kids workbooks: “A apple, B ball.” Such a waste of potential, such a waste of everything.
As homeschoolers, after a period of recovery, by all of us, from the pedantic school model, my children took off and have never stopped soaring. The only thing my husband and I did that might have passed for “teaching” was the example of our lives–as readers, writers, people with intense interests, people with goals, people who have not needed credentials bestowed by Those On High to get where we are.
talking with a few of them. They don’t want the guvmint to tell them what to do with their kids. Apparently teaching their kids how to spell isn’t something they want to do either.
As long as they don’t blame guvmint for their lot in life. (yeah right)
as readers, writers, people with intense interests, people with goals, people who have not needed credentials bestowed by Those On High to get where we are.
Well, sure. But what if you weren’t “readers and writers” ?
What then? What if the life example you were setting was a canned curriculum and then off to work, where you’re no longer getting calls from teachers and principals, because your kid is no longer on anyone’s radar ? I dealt with a charming 16 year old who wants to be a pilot. He’s spending a good part of every day watching the history channel. He knows a shit load of history, but he’s at 4th grade math. He isn’t going to be a pilot, without a lot of remedial work. Is that fair? Where is he in this? What about him? He doesn’t know what he doesn’t know. He’s alone a lot. We have mediocre public schools here. He would have gotten algebra by now, even there. He might have failed, but he would have gotten a shot.
I think you’re generalizing your experience. Mine is a little different. I accept yours. You won’t afford me that.
Not acknowledging that not everyone has a fully realized and rich inner life filled with reading and writing is not realistic. It’s not true.
91.
bemused
@mr. whipple:
We have to spell things in front of our dogs…walk, ride or even ‘go for’. If someone says, “I could go for a pizza” they think that means go for a walk or ride. It gets a little spooky sometimes. Definitely way smarter than the average Palin fan.
Wow. Some things are now too crazy for RedState. And pretty mainstream things within the Republican Party, too.
93.
geg6
Yeah, home schoolers. Whatever. I have no idea how it works in other states, but here in PA, I’ve only come across three home schoolers (and two of the three were twins) who had more than the most rudimentary of educations. I’ve been in post-secondary ed for well over 20 years and, with that one exception, all the home schoolers I’ve dealt with were exteme fundamentalist Christans. None of those made it through either the community college or my current large university. Don’t other states have gifted programs for kids who need bigger challenges? My niece is in the gifted program with a focus on science and technology (she’s 8) that is run by CMU in conjunction with her school district. It’s fucking awesome. I can’t believe PA is ahead of the entire nation in this.
94.
demo woman
@FormerSwingVoter: Nah, he is that crazy but knows that his gigs on cnn would stop if he promoted them. It’s all about the game and winning.
95.
Church Lady
@MikeJ: I don’t know about dozens, but I did find the original photo from the Houston Press:
but I did find the original photo from the Houston Press:
Hello, retard? You already declared that any photo with the “Homescholer” wording was photoshopped. Ergo, your “original photo” is a blatant shop and totally unreliable.
(No, honey, it’s okay for me to call you a retard, because I’m making a joke. Sarah said so.)
97.
Cassidy
we should all make fun of what appears to be a six or seven year old and his inability to spell.
My seven year old can spell it. And she goes to public school. Says a lot about the “validity” of a home schooled education, or lack thereof. My wife and I also check thier homework for accurate spelling as well.
It’s a little kid’s sign. Yeah, we should all make fun of what appears to be a six or seven year old and his inability to spell.
The kid didn’t drive himself or herself to the event. Some adult did, presumably a parent or guardian. The same adult could have had a look at the sign and turned it into a teachable moment. “I love your effort on the sign Billy/Sally. Let’s look it over before we take it to the rally. How many O’s does ‘school’ have? That’s right, two! Now how many are in your word? That’s right, one. Is that spelled correctly?” Etc…
It’s not making fun of a kid. It’s making fun of the idiot parents who boast of homeschooling their kids and do such an obviously poor job.
99.
Ann B. Nonymous
@Church Lady: Unsurprising that a Republican with a cross-dresser pseudonym will be biased towards the nut jobs. Defend, defend, defend evil; praise Satan’s works under the name of the Lord.
Homeschoolers are able lobbyists. I wouldn’t worry about them. It’s a “movement” with all of the fervor that word usually entails.
I don’t think they need Church Lady playing defense. They’ve successfully changed laws in all 50 states. The Mighty Power of public schools is vastly overstated. Mostly they’re just trying to get the job done. If you want out, they’re more than happy to let you ride off into the sunset.
“Until this week, Texas-based retailer J.C. Penney thought the “HOME SKOOLED” T-shirt was cool enough to peddle on its racks in the kiddie section. Only after a heated e-mail and phone campaign by home schooling parents did the department store chain send a notice to J.C. Penney stores nationwide Wednesday advising them to remove the T-shirts. “It wasn’t our intent to sell an item that is offensive,” a company spokesman told the Associated Press”
101.
Jackie
@kay:
That kid who wants to be a pilot may not be on a great path to achieving his goal, but at least no one is crushing his aspirations and boring him to death, day after day. He’s got a lot of life ahead of him, time for him not only to find out what he does not know (I learn these lessons daily), but also to learn what he does need to know. No real need to panic here–not any more than we panic for the millions of kids languishing in the public schools.
I’m generalizing the experience of hundreds and hundreds of families I worked with during my years as a leader in the movement. I saw every kind of situation, every kind of dysfunction (child, family, public school).
In the land of the free, and the home of the . . . experiments by parents who are educating their own children should get a pass. Messy, yes, all of them. Some failure. Some acceptable. Some awesome.
Oh, Sweet Jebus, I just reinvented the bell curve. Forgive, forgive.
102.
Church Lady
@Chyron HR: I didn’t say it WAS photoshopped, I said it LOOKED photoshopped (and it does, in comparison to everything around it in the cropped version that appears here at BJ), so your lack of reading comprehension( i.e., is vs. looks) signals you might be the retarded one. It’s ok for me to say that – I have Sarah and Rush’s permission.
The full photo, showing the little kid holding the sign, as well as the partial sign behind him, at the Houston Press site, makes it look real. Why was the kid cropped out in the photo shown here? Is it because it’s not as funny when a little kid misspells something?
103.
Violet
@kay:
Oh, I don’t worry about homeschool parents. I do worry about some of the kids because it doesn’t seem like they’re getting the best education available to them in many cases. In other cases it’s definitely great. And yeah, they’re very able lobbyists.
104.
Church Lady
@Violet: Perhaps you can contact this miscreant mother and offer to adopt her child. It’s clear that she’s not fit to raise children and even more obvious that this unfortunate child would no doubt flourish (and learn to spell) in your more capable hands.
105.
Jackie
Factually wrong. Homeschoolers have not “changed laws in all 50 states.” States have just stopped pushing back.
106.
raff
Conservative protest signs are like grade-school science projects: the more ‘professional’ looking the entry, the more likely they had Daddy’s “help”.
Mock, if you will, these patriots that care enough to bring personally crafted representations of their discontent rather than be handed some professionally printed signage from the RNC, but god bless their little souls. They’re trying their best to succeed without Daddy’s help & that should be applauded. After all, what’s a few typos here & there when the fate of the nation hangs in the balance?
107.
schrodinger's cat
Ok historical question, was home-schooling always this big? or is this a new phenomenon? The question I have is, how can a parent, no matter how well meaning and dedicated, replace an entire community (other children, teachers etc). Also what about labs? are these home-schooled children getting a good grounding in math and science?
108.
Violet
@Church Lady:
What the heck? Just because I think this homeschooling parent isn’t doing a good job of homeschooling his or her child doesn’t mean I or anyone else should adopt the child. You are seriously out of line with such a suggestion.
Recognizing that a parent isn’t doing a good job of educating his or her child or children isn’t at all the same thing as saying, to quote you, “she’s not fit to raise children.” Parents are imperfect because they’re human. But recognizing one’s limitations is an important part of being an adult and a good parent. Clearly this parent has some limitations when it comes to homeschooling his or her child or children.
They have, Jackie. They set up certification processes that didn’t exist. My state’s involves a once a year letter to the school district from the homeschooling parent. In my state, we simply had required schooling from 1st grade to age 16, and a truancy statute. Now we have a homeschooling law. Where did that come from? Out of thin air?
I told you I’m not panicking.
I don’t have a dog in this fight. I simply stated my opinion, here, that I think states should revisit the regulations. I came to that opinion after looking at a lot of facts. Public (and private, actually) schools are heavily regulated, there’s lots of oversight, and there’s a reason for that.
I came to that. I didn’t approach this initially with an opinion, and I’m not a member of any movement, pro or con. I did encounter the movement, however, and I don’t think you’re a member of some maligned and unfairly treated group, ground up under the state’s boot heel. That wasn’t what I found to be true.
111.
Jackie
@kay: You claimed they changed the law in all 50 states. Factually wrong.
112.
Cassidy
Ok historical question, was home-schooling always this big? or is this a new phenomenon?
Eh…it’s been around for a while. If I remember right, it started as a way for parents of bright children to tailor thier education, as the schools weren’t up to the job. Then fundies got ahold of the process to keep that “upptiy lernin” from infecting the kids with anything beyond “God, Jesus, the bible and no buttseks”. Math and science is for suckers going to higher learning, 2+2= baby jesus, and all that.
Yeah, we should all make fun of what appears to be a six or seven year old and his inability to spell.
Right, that’s exactly the sort of perfectly formed lettering a first-grader would make.
/snark
114.
Jackie
@Cassidy:
Pretty good “history” of homeschooling, except for the part when huge numbers of parents made the choice to educate at home for non-religious, non-ideological reasons. Has one of your children come home with defeat in his eyes? Have you seen your child face every new school day with dread and anxiety? Then welcome to America, where that happens all the time.
115.
Cassidy
@Jackie: No, because my kids aren’t a bunch of pansies.
I didn’t leave anything out. You are assuming that your story is the overall accurate narrative. So, you pulled your sensitive kids out of school and taught them to fly like free little birdies. Yay! Do you want a fucking cookie? Get over yourself. Maybe your kids will reward you by not putting you in a nursing home.
For every anecdote like yours, there are probably a dozen involving gifted children or overly religious parents.
116.
Jon H
@Jackie: “The only thing my husband and I did that might have passed for “teaching” was the example of our lives—as readers, writers, people with intense interests, people with goals, people who have not needed credentials bestowed by Those On High to get where we are.”
And just how would these not have applied had your kids gone to school?
117.
Spork
Damn, you people are stupid sometimes. You’re all correct, Jackie, Kay, Cassidy. You’re all also just talking past the what is in my opinion the issue here, to feel all self righteous about your positions, and have a chance to have a little snit against someone. Sorry.
The point is that it’s fine for ANYONE who is a qualified teacher to teach children, whether in a public, private, or home schooling environment, and parents DO have a right to remove their children from a failing educational environment, and children DO have a right to an education. Now, whether that entails the right of an unqualified parent to be the primary educator of a child is the issue.
Jackie, you’re qualified. Homescholer, you’re not. Devising the means to tell the competent from the incompetent should be the debate.
118.
Cassidy
@Spork: I’m just trying to piss off the self-righteous.
My personal belief is that homeschooling is no more or less a better program than public schools. Some are good, some suck ass. I do think that homeschooling should have more regulation, but if people oppose and want to set their kids up for failure, that is their perogative. Me, I send my kids to public skills, teach them the coping skills to deal with bullies, both teacher and student type, and I get actively involved in what my kids are learning so that I can correct any inaccuracies.
But I don’t demand validation or a cookie for it. That’s just good parenting.
119.
Spork
@Cassidy: “if people oppose and want to set their kids up for failure, that is their perogative.”
I gotta deal with those kids for the rest of their lives. Not that that’s important in regard to their or their parents rights, but it colors my opinion.
But yeah, I agree with you totally in that homeschooling is fine w/ me, but there must be regulation, or at a minimum, active supervision to maintain a standard equal to available public schooling in the area of the student.
Jackie, you can’t just keep stating your premise without elaborating.
Here. I’ll help. You’re making a pedantic distinction between drafting new laws, and changing laws. One of the ways you change the law is to write a new one.
Homeschoolers did that.
Homeschoolers were drafting laws according to their specifications. In state legislatures. Part of the reason they were able to do that is because there is a remarkable amount of deference in this country for anyone that claims religion. While I recognize that you are not in that particular group of the movement, I read the record, and that’s what happened.
Legislators, as usual, backed the hell down when the religious came in. The effort was organized (as you know) and that is lobbying. Most people didn’t pay attention because schools are a lot like Congress. Everyone hates “public schools”. They just don’t hate their own. Most people are fine with their public school.
The whole idea behind “public school” is “most people”. They don’t pretend to dovetail anything to each child. That’s why they’re different than private schools, or homeschooling.
When I worked on the case (for two years) I got familiar with the movement. I wasn’t impressed. The loudest were ideologues. They relied on broad-based indictments of public schools, and painted an unrealistic picture of homeschoolers. Nothing in the world is that black and white, and it’s the mark of an ideologues, to me.
I also don’t care for the whole homeschooling “movement”
victimization posture. I’m not going to throw you in the back of a patrol car and take you to school, although, as I said, I think truancy laws are due for another look.
Well, no. We already discussed that idea. I think homeschoolers should be reasonably regulated, and Jackie does not.
She thinks they shouldn’t be regulated because public schools sometimes fail. I don’t get the connection, myself, but that’s where we parted ways.
I am not actually going to launch an initiative to regulate homeschooling, but I would suggest that it isn’t all hearts and flowers and committed parents out there, and I would also suggest that while Jackie (and me, actually) did not care for school, for a lot of ordinary kids and ordinary households school is the only “learning experience” they are likely to get. And those are the kids I deal with. For some of them, it’s the single best place they go. That’s reality.
@Cassidy: @kay: I never had to be an NCO, just a technical guy, E-4 Specialist Radar Repairman, but I know what you have to deal with.
Sorry to paint w/ the broad brush Kay, I do come down on your side on that point.
I did not care for school myself, and was a high school dropout by the end of my freshman year. I did go on to a Community College 3 years after dropping out, and got an AAS on the honor roll. I do not attribute any of what success I have had in college, the military, or at my tech job to the education I received in public school. However, I was raised by parents that taught me to read before kindergarten, and grew up in a house full of books and no TV. The education kind of took care of itself after that. Most people do not have the environment I did, and I think it’s reasonable for the state to have at least a glancing interest that children are in fact being educated. I fear Jackie is suggesting a free for all, where parents have an absolute right to determine education for their kids, regardless of results or batshit insanity.
126.
Spork
Goddamit. FYWP! I used my rank in a comment: E-4, not a Corporal, got hit with the soshulist spelling. repost below, sorry for when this shows up as a double post.
Your comment is awaiting moderation.
@Cassidy: @kay: I never had to be an NCO, just a technical guy, E-4 Speshulist Radar Repairman, but I know what you have to deal with.
Sorry to paint w/ the broad brush Kay, I do come down on your side on that point.
I did not care for school myself, and was a high school dropout by the end of my freshman year. I did go on to a Community College 3 years after dropping out, and got an AAS on the honor roll. I do not attribute any of what success I have had in college, the military, or at my tech job to the education I received in public school. However, I was raised by parents that taught me to read before kindergarten, and grew up in a house full of books and no TV. The education kind of took care of itself after that. Most people do not have the environment I did, and I think it’s reasonable for the state to have at least a glancing interest that children are in fact being educated. I fear Jackie is suggesting a free for all, where parents have an absolute right to determine education for their kids, regardless of results or batshit insanity.
@Jackie: No, because my kids aren’t a bunch of pansies.
I just love that line. Got to be one of my favorites of late.
I didn’t leave anything out. You are assuming that your story is the overall accurate narrative. So, you pulled your sensitive kids out of school and taught them to fly like free little birdies. Yay! Do you want a fucking cookie? Get over yourself. Maybe your kids will reward you by not putting you in a nursing home.
Spot-on overall comment. I was following along and willing to grant Jackie a few points, but the overall attitude of superiority got a little grating somewhere around the 10th or 12th angry lash-back at anyone who happened to have another opinion.
But home-schooling was definitely something Jackie should have had. Think of all the other kids that would have been saved from having to deal with her obnoxious attitude.
129.
Irony Abounds
I get a bit tired of the public school bashing that routinely goes on all along the ideological divide. Are there crummy public schools? Absolutely. Just like there are bad charter schools and to a lesser extent bad private schools. The thing is, public schools have to take everyone that shows up. No matter how obnoxious the kid, no matter how lousy the parents. Public schools also have to deal with kids with emotional problems and other problems that take a great deal of time and effort to deal with. It’s great that kids with these problems have a place to learn, but don’t think for a second that it doesn’t detract from the learning of the other kids to at least some extent.
My wife teaches kindergarten, arrives at school around 7:15 and is there until 4:30 or 5:00 every day. She pours her heart and soul into teaching and her school, which has a mix of kids from all demographics, excels at producing good students. The public high school my kids have gone to has its good points and bad points, but somehow managed to give my oldest the ability to do very well in college and gain admittance into a select nursing college. It also produces a nationally ranked academic decathlon team. If parents take the time to get involved in their kids education, even public schools can do a great job.
130.
ADAM
Wow what can’t photoshop do?
If this is a sample of what the democratic party believes, then good luck to you all in 2010 and 2012….
131.
Jackie
Hmmm. It’s not hard to figure out who the schoolyard bullies are around here.
A little recommended reading: Drive: The Surprising Truth About What Motivates Us by Daniel H. Pink
Read the chapter entitled, “Take a Class from the Unschoolers” Then you might have a clue why imposing standards, rigor, structure, or whatever else on homeschooling would inhibit the best it has to offer.
132.
Cassidy
@Jackie: Heh…oh, dear drama queen, if only you knew. I didn’t bully kids. I fought people’s bullies.
133.
Jackie
@Cassidy:
I’m sure you believe that. Good for you.
She seems intent on proving you right, that’s for sure.
135.
Chulachaser
First of all as someone who spent more than 10 years working as a professional photographer. I can say without question, despite what was said previously in this post, this photo is a fake. Clearly a flash was used to take this picture which is evidenced by the hot spots on both the sign and the hands holding it. Yet the person standing three inches away from the sign shows no signs of a flash and reflects only ambient lighting. This tactic is common among anti-homeschooling groups and yes they do exist. The unfortunate aspect of this is that these groups are often anti-Christian. Primarily because they are also uneducated on the realities of homeschooling, because those doing homeschooling are often not Christians. The other side of the coin, and I know I will catch a lot of flack over this even though it is true, they are also often Democrats.
The sad part of this is that it seems the uneducated ones are the throngs of people who have chosen to form opinions based on a fake photo. Perhaps they are the ones who lake education?
I can say without question, despite what was said previously in this post, this photo is a fake. … This tactic is common among anti-homeschooling groups and yes they do exist.
John Quixote
Spongebob: (is in a Texas shape) Hey Patrick, what am I now?
Patrick: Uhh, stupid?
Spongebob: No, I’m Texas!
General Winfield Stuck
That has to be from an Obot undercover ninja operative. They can’t be that dumb, can they?
CT Voter
Words fail me. Homeschoolers or home scholars?
Homes cholers for Perry? Gut infections for Perry?
Mark S.
Death to Soshalism!
Molly
We’re just so proud of our Texas Teabaggers.
Sigh.
General Winfield Stuck
Shirley not.
mak
It’s about time. My “Get a brain, Morans” pic was getting a little stale.
Violet
Heard on the top-of-the-hour news on a local AM station that Perry/Palin (or is it Palin/Perry?) is being touted as a strong combination for the Republican ticket in 2012. This was in the two minutes news break. Ugh. Stupid AM wingnut station. Speculation isn’t news.
Governor Goodhair and La Palin would be a very funny combination to watch, though. He’s not the brightest bulb in the box and she’s a loose cannon. Popcorn time!
Osprey
I can’t remember who said it, but to paraphrase, “Idiot America is starting to stir, and Palin is their queen”.
bayville
Thanks for the new screensaver.
Jackie
I suppose you have all forgotten the many times homeschoolers have won the National Spelling Bee.
This is sad to me because I homeschooled my gifted kids to avoid the wretched public schools (couldn’t afford private school.) Once we figured out that it isn’t about schooling-at-home, but is instead an opportunity to let children follow their interests and passions, we settled in very happily. They started community college classes at age 13, got accepted at very selective colleges (Amherst, Pomona, Colgate, Middlebury, etc. ). Now one is a Berkeley-educated lawyer working on sustainable economics and sharing law (www.sharingsolution.com) and the other is a geologist working on environmental cleanup. This liberal, Democrat, atheist family found something wonderful in homeschooling. It’s a shame that so few people see the diversity and, in many cases, the excellence within the homeschool movement.
Oh, yeah, and I really hate those fundamentalist morans.
Josie
It’s at times like this that I really miss Molly Ivins. She would have had such a good time with this. Other than that, words fail me.
suzanne
Wow. That is WRONG. With a capital R.
Violet
@Jackie:
Homeschooling varies in different parts of the country. I’ve got friends outside DC who homeschool their kids, as does a large part of the neighborhood, apparently, and they’re definitely not wingnut Christianist types. However, in Texas a lot of homeschooling is done for religious reasons. It doesn’t surprise me to see this sign at a Texas rally, although it’s sad.
Molly
@General Winfield Stuck: It’s real. I sent it to John. Yes, they are this stupid. I’m amazed they got the ch right and didn’t make it a k.
It’s not homeschooling. It’s Texas Wingnut.
licensed to kill time
__
Excess cholers, homes.
freelancer
I really gotta start
signing my emails. bolding my OT posts.This was courtesy of Neiwert at C&L, taken by the Houston Press.
General Winfield Stuck
@Molly: Gawd help us all then. When Perry gets elected again, I guess we will see signs with “Yes to Texas Succeeds From Union”
kay
@Jackie:
I have a good friend who homeschools for the very reasons you mentioned, and she works like hell at it. Her kids are great.
It sounds like your experience was a while ago, and if you care about it, you should check back in.
The latest homeschooling horror is this: kids who get into trouble are being “homeschooled” by parents who have decided it’s easier to keep them home than actually respond to the problems they’re having in school.
Here, local public schools are treating this charade with a wink and a nod, because they’d rather not have kids who get into trouble in their school.
I talk to them. They want to go to school. They know they’re being shuttled to “homeschooling” because it’s easier than actually addressing their problems. The parents are buying these over-priced “packaged curriculum” and just leaving the kid unattended. It’s become a legitimate problem, and it discredits the whole idea, I would think.
I think states should revisit the whole issue of regulating this. It’s out of control, and it’s actually harming these kids.
Tsulagi
Good to see Morans Guy has passed on the torch to a new group.
Molly
@freelancer:Lol, you and I had the same thought when we saw it, “excellent Bj fodder. “
Violet
@kay:
Texas has some of the fewest regulations on homeschooling in the country. Homeschooling parents seem to be happy about this and consider themselves fortunate from what I can tell from talking with a few of them. They don’t want the guvmint to tell them what to do with their kids. Apparently teaching their kids how to spell isn’t something they want to do either.
Comrade Dread
Lern sum Engrish, wud u, peeples?
Pangloss
There was a sign in DC against The Pubic Option. Or maybe it was just a leftover sign from when they were protesting sex education in schools.
John Harrold
It’s kind of funny, and I know you probably didn’t mean it this way, but ‘fale’ is the Samoan word for home.
Thoroughly Pizzled
@Jackie:
Don’t mention the non-fact that home-schoolers win the Spelling Bee a lot. It’s not fair.
Unlike students in public or private school, they can essentially devote all their time to studying words, while other kids usually have homework to do (disclaimer: I don’t think home-schooled kids actually spend all their time studying for competitions, but they definitely have more time available).
Actually, though, home-schooled kids don’t win the Spelling Bee all that much, although they get pretty far in the final rounds. The Geography Bee has more home-schooled winners, definitely.
FlipYrWhig
Maybe the sign was made by little Cody and Kaitlyn Homescholer, whose parents Douglas and Maria Homescholer (née Hernandez) are very proud. Generation after generation, the Homescholer family–from Oskar and Hilde Hömescholer on down–remains steadfast in its dedication to the Republican party.
KDP
@freelancer: And, speaking of C&L, they’ve just posted this gem. It doesn’t help that the Christianist, anti-gubmint homeschooling parents obtain their civics lessons from sources like these: Buy Land, Stock up on firearms, Anarchy is coming
GReynoldsCT00
Homeschol FAIL
kay
@Violet:
I did elaborate research for a case in Michigan and Ohio. It was fascinating. I testified, and the homeschoolers were there, in the gallery. They were mad before I opened my mouth, and it didn’t get any better after I did.
I don’t have a problem with it, as an idea. I lean “conservative” on parent’s rights. I see that angle. I think parents have lots and lots of leeway. Like so many libertarian ideas, however, it veers into crazy pretty quickly.
We had truancy statutes for a reason, I am learning. We no longer enforce them, because homeschoolers have a powerful voice in state legislatures, but we might want to look at that again.
It’s also become quite the profitable venture. There are many, many programs to buy. The whole thing makes me sad. Here, they’re rural poor people. They didn’t do well in school, they dislike interacting with school, and there’s no “reward”, all they get is negatives on their kid.
Homeschooling has become a way to avoid all that. Public schools are all too eager to sign off. Kids who have trouble in school drag down the mean, and use resources.
Regulate, I say. Committed parents will comply, and non-committed parents shouldn’t be homeschooling.
DanF
What’s worse, the person holding a misspelled sign touting an educational preference, or the fact that no one in the room was confident enough in their own spelling abilities to point out the error? Palm. On. Face.
mr. whipple
I can’t spell for shit. How would I homeschool my kids?
I’m glad I just stuck with cats. No spelling.
Legalize
I know that this is an uncomfortable topic, but it is not too late or too crazy to start planning the Great Austin Airlift.
Remember November
@Osprey:
Required watching: Mike Judge’s “Idiocracy” and “Extract”- finish off with “Office Space” to clear the bile out of your gullet.
freelancer
Whitest Kids U Know – Home School
Gina
@Jackie: Cool! Another HS mom, my kids are 8 & 11, I’m also atheist and homeschooling because the local system is “meh”. It’s not horrible, but it’s a very “aim low” culture, mostly about getting kids to sit still, and then go get some vo-tech training to work in one of the local warehouses…Private schools tend to be either Waldorf or Catholic. Yeah, Waldorf doesn’t work for me either, and Catholic, well…
We’re fortunate to have a co-op that’s secular, for just fooling around or doing interesting group things. Mostly, I just get out of my kids’ way, though I do find I have to flog them on certain things (*cough*math*cough) to make sure the skills are covered. Having the internet makes all of this a lot easier than I’d originally thought it would be, there are many great online options that we use. Community college will be a tool we’ll use as well. Unfortunately, our local county CC is very anti-hs but we have the option of a much BETTER facility that actively recruits homeschoolers. It’s a drive, but doable.
I do regret that I have no time/energy for my own career, but I’m hopeful that as the kids get older I’ll be able to re-visit that. I used to design and make fine jewelry, and have all my studio tools stored away.
Grumpy Code Monkey
@Legalize:
You give Austin way too much credit. Everyone forgets that Austin is graded on a curve. We’re somewhat less insane than the rest of the state (by most standards, anyway), but we aren’t exactly functional, either.
Citizen_X
@DanF: It’s not even one person that’s holding the sign, two people are holding it.
To show it off more proudly to the camera, I suppose.
kay
@Citizen_X:
I thought they meant “scholar” but then I realized I can’t spell either. I was eager to give them credit for that.
FlipYrWhig
@Citizen_X: I’m telling you, each set of hands belongs to someone named “Homescholer,” thereby making it an accurate and entirely un-mock-worthy sign. ;D
Jackie
Violet and Kay:
Nothing new here. I was at the forefront of the secular branch of the movement in California for 15 years, and I saw and heard it all. What I discovered is that homeschooling has an inherent accountability mechanism because the process itself selects out the failures. I observed that about half of families who try it quit within a few months’ to a year’s time. If the schools find a kid a real pain in the ass, the parents will too, especially when s/he is home all day and in their faces. The packaged curricula are big bores, and soon enough, the whole family is miserable. So they haul the kid back to school.
There’s another scenario that deserves notice. Many, many families pull their child out of school because the kid is being bullied by kids and/or teacher. Lots of kids need special handling: shy kids, kids with physical imperfections, kids with learning problems, kids with ongoing health problems–thankfully, homeschooling gives these kids an out from the torment.
More state regulation? Ha! They need to fix public education first before they will have any credibility with homeschoolers.
Kaleb
@Legalize: Good point. Where do I sign up for the organization committee? We’ll need an escape route come secession time.
Bill E Pilgrim
If only Dan Quayle were there to correct the poor kid.
And just think, we used to joke that Quayle was a bad as it could get. Little did we know, he looks like an articulate genius in comparison to what the right is fielding these days.
I just made myself shudder extrapolating from that what Republican candidates will be like in around 2026. Yow.
Pasquinade
http://www.redstate.com/erick/2010/02/12/vigilance-im-banning-birfers-truthers-and-groups-affiliated-therewith/
FReepers’ feelings are hurt.
mr. whipple
Me, with kid:
“Spell ‘cat’. Sound it out.”
Kid: “K?A?T?”
“No, it’s C.A.T.”
“But why does C sound like K sometimes, and sometimes not, and how do I know the difference?”
Me: “Here’s spellcheck. Have fun!”
jwb
@Grumpy Code Monkey: Hey, but we’re like the rest of Texas in owning guns. Just wait till the Texas Secessionist Army tries to take Austin.
El Cid
Stop making fun of home cholera enthusiasts.
AND STOP MOCKING TRIG PALIN!
Stooleo
OT
More Harold Ford douchebaggery.
Church Lady
Although not a fan of home schooling, I think this picture looks photoshopped. Although some are somewhat close minded at times, the parents that I know that home school are pretty intelligent. Most of the ones that I know home school because their children are extremely bright and the pace in the local public school system is too slow to for them, resulting in boredom. If they had the money to send their kids to a private school, they would.
Bill E Pilgrim
@Pasquinade: That was the funniest thing I’ve read in a long time, thanks for that.
Somehow this comes to mind.
FlipYrWhig
@mr. whipple: I once went on a not-quite-drunken rant about the absurdity of the letter C. Really it should just be the symbol for the sound we now indicate as “ch.” Tell the kid it’s all a conspiracy. Or tell the cid it’s all a konspirasy. Whichever.
brantl
It’s too bad they didn’t go for the trifecta, with ‘fer’ and ‘Pary’ , isn’t it? But then, I guess that they couldn’t be that consistant, either.
Bill E Pilgrim
@mr. whipple:
As long as were posting Python links, you should like this one:
Tourist: Yes I’m sorry I can’t say the letter ‘B’
Bounder: C?
Tourist: Yes that’s right. It’s all due to a trauma I suffered when I was a spoolboy. I was attacked by a bat
Bounder: A cat?
Tourist: No a bat
Bounder: Can you say the letter ‘K’?….
kay
@Jackie:
Well, we disagree. I deal with high school age kids who were pulled out and given a canned curriculum, which they’re completing in an hour and a half, and they’re spending the rest of the day alone. They should have some say in the matter, and they don’t. Parents rights are really important, but so is the child’s right to attend school. I think it’s way out of balance, for that age group.
Again, I’m with you on the idea. I don’t think it has played out the way it was intended, here anyway. I don’t know who intervenes when it’s abused in this way. There aren’t any regulations, so no one does. I don’t think that’s fair.
mr. whipple
@FlipYrWhig:
I’d mess them up so bad.
I think it’s great some people can do it well, but generally believe it’s best left to professionals.
General Winfield Stuck
@Church Lady:
We’d be shocked if you didn’t.
brantl
Reminds me of the Mork and Mindy episode with the guy from the Church of OJ Simpson, telling Mork he was crazy.
Svensker
@John Harrold:
Is that a koan?
JenJen
Awesome! Needed a new desktop background.
Michael
This was hysterical.
Wall Street guys hold their own teabagging style event and manage to convey even less competence than Bible Spice.
http://www.dailyfinance.com/story/revenge-of-the-wall-street-traders-the-fat-cats-strike-back/19347065/
Da Bomb
@Jackie: Pretty much what Violet said about homeschooling in Texas. Usually they are fleeing from “religious persecution and coloreds.”
I went to a great public school, which afforded me the chance to attend a great private university.
In fact the high school I attended was #50 on the list of top high schools in the country referenced by U.S. News and World Report for 2009. It’s a public magnet school. You have to test well to get accepted. It’s always ranked somewhere within the top 200. There wasn’t any tuition to pay. ANd it was filled to brim with kids who were various different shades as well as different religions. And it’s in Houston.
But as for “homescholing” here… oy! And these dipshits want to change the history textbooks, and fill it with teabagger bullshit.
Guvenah Goodhair is worthless sack of beaver shit. My contempt for him, knows no bounds. I wish Ann Richards or Molly Ivins were alive.
Pangloss
You know who else was homeschooled? Hitler.
Citizen Alan
@kay:
I certainly don’t think there’s anything wrong with home-schooling provided that you are home-schooling with the goal of giving your kids a superior education in comparison to what they’d get at the local school. What I don’t approve of is home-schooling your kids out of a paranoid fear that the local school will expose them to ideas to which you object, which in some cases includes the idea that your child has some type of developmental problem that you refuse to deal with because of your own personal issues. Unfortunately, in my brief teaching career, I saw far too many of the latter situation and none at all of the first.
kay
@Pangloss:
He was not. Germans love public school. They invented kindergarten, and brought it to America! Wisconsin. I veered a little off course in my research.
MikeJ
@Church Lady:
There are dozens of pics of this sign from various angles.
Jackie
@kay:
Millions of kids have been ill-served by public schools for probably as long as there have been public schools. I know I was.
So a fraction of homeschoolers also screw up. Big deal. Why is the outrage always on the families who go their own way? A Nation At Risk was published in 1983, warning us that our public schools were failing miserably. They still are. Save your outrage for that, and let parents follow their own lights. At least when they screw up, it’s their own failure–not one imposed on them by an incompetent bureaucracy.
Also, kids may have right to an education (though I don’t know where that is written), but they do not have “a right to attend school.”
scav
Come on, they’re just people at home raising toasts to Perry. Which explains why they can’t spell “Skål”.
JGabriel
Bill E Pilgrim:
It’s not that Quayle is any smarter than Palin or the Teabaggers, it’s just that he’s way less violent. I guess Quayle had — and I never thought I’d hear myself say this — a fundamental decency.
There’s a level of cruelty, irresponsibility, and violent fantasy that’s been mainstreamed since then.
.
kay
@Citizen Alan:
I haven’t run into a lot of religious objections, which probably means the religious parents here are doing an adequate job. I run into parents who pull their kid out of high school because their kid isn’t doing well, and schools call them in a lot.
Look, the fact is, homeschool is only going to be as good as the teacher. It was never the building, or the “amenities” or any of that. Teaching one human being something is the definition of hand’s on.
I personally am a lousy teacher, so I completely appreciate and admire good ones. If your parent is a lousy teacher, it isn’t going to go well. For older kids, I think they should have some say in getting to a school, when the experiment fails. For that, they need an adult to intervene, because they don’t have any rights. Without regulation, that isn’t going to happen.
Because the problem with lousy teachers is, they don’t know they’re lousy. My father says everyone thinks they are a great driver. I think there’s a little of that in play with teaching. Everyone went to school, so everyone thinks they can do this. Some of them can’t, or won’t.
Svensker
@Jackie:
We homeschooled for one year because we were in the process of moving and couldn’t see putting a sensitive 13-year-old through having to be introduced to two new groups of 8th grade kids.
It was a very enjoyable experience for all of us, I think, although I would have had to go outside for math help if we’d gone farther.
We were fortunate enough to have a really good private high school available that we could afford. But in some of the areas we’ve lived, the public schools are either really terrible (much of Hudson Co., NJ) or very high pressure (every kid has a personal athletics coach in parts of rich Bergen Co., NJ). Our kid would have floundered or been miserable in either — we were lucky enough to have a choice, but would have chosen homeschooling in a flash rather than subject our kid to clique-ridden rich-kid schools, or a school where the students jumped and murdered a teacher (I do not kid).
gelfling545
From what I’m hearing about the textbooks in Texas, being in the public schools might have the same result.If ignorance is bliss, these people must be euphoric.
Patrick
We are the Tea Party. We put the “K” in edukation!
gogol's wife
@JGabriel:
I was about to defend Dan Quayle’s intelligence and then I saw this on TPM: Former Vice President Dan Quayle appeared on Fox News this afternoon to chip in his two cents on the health care debate. Namely, he warned that using the reconciliation process would set a “very bad precedent” because a simple majority is just unconstitutional.
“They’re gonna go to budget reconciliation, which I believe would set a very bad precedent, because essentially — if they could do it, and I don’t know if they can do it, but if they could do it — what you have done, effectively, is to take away the filibuster in the United States Senate,” Quayle said. “So, therefore, you have 51 votes in the House and 51 votes in the Senate. That is not what our Founding Fathers had in mind. That is not the constitutional process.”
Bill E Pilgrim
@JGabriel: Hmm, have to disagree with you there.
I mean his speeches were often Titanic-level shipwrecks of monumental and terrible beauty, but I’m sorry, he never just launched into pure unbroken word salad for extended periods, like this:
..about the health care reform that is needed to help shore up our economy. Um, helping, oh, it’s got to be about job creation, too. Shoring up our economy, and getting it back on the right track. So health care reform and reducing taxes and reining in spending has got to accompany tax reductions, and tax relief for Americans, and trade — we have got to see trade as opportunity, not as, uh, competitive, um, scary thing, but one in five jobs created in the trade sector today. We’ve got to look at that as more opportunity. All of those things under the umbrella of job creation
Now that’s poetry!
Quayle also BTW had something like 12 years of experience, 8 as a member of Congress and 4 as a US Senator, before being tapped as VP. When people were claiming “she’s as inexperienced as Quayle” I thought er, nope.
AkaDad
Dont mes with Texas.
Bill E Pilgrim
@gogol’s wife: I stand corrected. He’s a real competitor. That was fantastic.
MikeJ
@Stooleo:
I brought this exact issue up right here almost a month ago to the day. I was sure somebody else would think of it too.
celticdragonchick
@CT Voter:
I agree. Words fail.
Does anybody know of any recent examples of a modern, democratic nation that actually deliberately regressed educationally?
Cassidy
Homeschooling parents should have the same requirements as required of our teachers, starting with an education.
Svensker
@gogol’s wife:
Whenever Dan Quayle does an “if this, therefore that” formation, the chances are upwards of 90% that it is going to be screwed up. Logic? He not so good at it.
asiangrrlMN
@kay: I actually think I’m a bad driver, but that’s neither here nor there. I have a good friend who homeschooled two of her kids, and they are both bright, smart, ahead-of-their age girls (each skipped a grade). However, it was a lot of hard work, and she is a teacher for realz in the first place. I don’t have a problem with people wanting to homeschool if they actually can do it. I know I wouldn’t be able to do it, and from what I’ve seen, the reasons for doing it in Texas are far different from the reasons for doing it in other areas of the country. So, I agree there should be some regulations concerning homeschooling.
@Jackie: That’s true. You had the opportunity and the desire and the ability to homeschool. Good for you. Many people do not. Public schools in general do need fixing, but for many kids, it’s the only game going. It doesn’t have to be an either-or. You don’t have to disparage all public schools in order to justify homeschooling. There are many dedicated teachers in public schools who are trying their damnedest to do the right thing.
kay
@Jackie:
I’m not outraged, at all.
Your “right” to an education is wholly subjective. It doesn’t exist, for the 16 year old, because you’re defining education.
I’m sure your definition is adequate and perhaps great. You had wonderful results. I don’t think that’s enough to base a state statute on.
Citizen Alan
@Jackie:
A Nation At Risk was shoddily researched conserva-porn put out by the Reagan Administration in order to undermine public support for the very idea of free, non-segregated public education. The view that “American schools are failing” was virtually non-existent prior to the publication of this screed which generated by a lot of angry old Republican men who were still pissed off at desegregation. Reagan and his cronies created it out of whole cloth in order to build support for the idea of dismantling public education in favor of vouchers to subsidize private schools which would then be free to discriminate against minority students.
Cassidy
At one point in time, parents would be involved with there kids lives and find out what they learned that day in school. And if any glaring discrepancies or wrongness was found, it could be addressed. We didn’t need homeschooling until parents stopped doing that.
kay
@asiangrrlMN:
I’m a good driver. GREAT!
My father no longer drives, is how this subject came up. I’m thinking about making him sit in the back seat. I bought him an i-pod, but he won’t use it. He saw right through that. How can he tell me how to drive if he’s listening to music? He has to operate the “brakes”.
kay
@asiangrrlMN:
As I said, my good friend does a great job. He kids are fab, although the little girl-child now wants to go to school.
Because she wants to go on the bus.
Jackie
@kay:
Sorry, Kay, but it’s not about “teachers.” It’s about letting the curiosity that each of us is born with be given free reign–especially if you can preserve it before some preschool/kindergarten teacher gets a chance to stomp on it.
I sent both of my kids to kindergarten knowing how to read at about a 3rd grade level. I showed the teachers. So what did the teachers do? They gave the kids workbooks: “A apple, B ball.” Such a waste of potential, such a waste of everything.
As homeschoolers, after a period of recovery, by all of us, from the pedantic school model, my children took off and have never stopped soaring. The only thing my husband and I did that might have passed for “teaching” was the example of our lives–as readers, writers, people with intense interests, people with goals, people who have not needed credentials bestowed by Those On High to get where we are.
Cain
@Violet:
As long as they don’t blame guvmint for their lot in life. (yeah right)
cain
Midnight Marauder
@Church Lady:
Well, I guess it’s a good thing that the rest of us know that it isn’t photoshopped.
@kay:
LOLWUT? These guys definitely approve.
kay
@Jackie:
Well, sure. But what if you weren’t “readers and writers” ?
What then? What if the life example you were setting was a canned curriculum and then off to work, where you’re no longer getting calls from teachers and principals, because your kid is no longer on anyone’s radar ? I dealt with a charming 16 year old who wants to be a pilot. He’s spending a good part of every day watching the history channel. He knows a shit load of history, but he’s at 4th grade math. He isn’t going to be a pilot, without a lot of remedial work. Is that fair? Where is he in this? What about him? He doesn’t know what he doesn’t know. He’s alone a lot. We have mediocre public schools here. He would have gotten algebra by now, even there. He might have failed, but he would have gotten a shot.
I think you’re generalizing your experience. Mine is a little different. I accept yours. You won’t afford me that.
Not acknowledging that not everyone has a fully realized and rich inner life filled with reading and writing is not realistic. It’s not true.
bemused
@mr. whipple:
We have to spell things in front of our dogs…walk, ride or even ‘go for’. If someone says, “I could go for a pizza” they think that means go for a walk or ride. It gets a little spooky sometimes. Definitely way smarter than the average Palin fan.
FormerSwingVoter
@Pasquinade:
Wow. Some things are now too crazy for RedState. And pretty mainstream things within the Republican Party, too.
geg6
Yeah, home schoolers. Whatever. I have no idea how it works in other states, but here in PA, I’ve only come across three home schoolers (and two of the three were twins) who had more than the most rudimentary of educations. I’ve been in post-secondary ed for well over 20 years and, with that one exception, all the home schoolers I’ve dealt with were exteme fundamentalist Christans. None of those made it through either the community college or my current large university. Don’t other states have gifted programs for kids who need bigger challenges? My niece is in the gifted program with a focus on science and technology (she’s 8) that is run by CMU in conjunction with her school district. It’s fucking awesome. I can’t believe PA is ahead of the entire nation in this.
demo woman
@FormerSwingVoter: Nah, he is that crazy but knows that his gigs on cnn would stop if he promoted them. It’s all about the game and winning.
Church Lady
@MikeJ: I don’t know about dozens, but I did find the original photo from the Houston Press:
http://www.houstonpress.com/slideshow/view/29258322/1
It’s a little kid’s sign. Yeah, we should all make fun of what appears to be a six or seven year old and his inability to spell.
Chyron HR
@Church Lady:
Hello, retard? You already declared that any photo with the “Homescholer” wording was photoshopped. Ergo, your “original photo” is a blatant shop and totally unreliable.
(No, honey, it’s okay for me to call you a retard, because I’m making a joke. Sarah said so.)
Cassidy
My seven year old can spell it. And she goes to public school. Says a lot about the “validity” of a home schooled education, or lack thereof. My wife and I also check thier homework for accurate spelling as well.
Violet
@Church Lady:
The kid didn’t drive himself or herself to the event. Some adult did, presumably a parent or guardian. The same adult could have had a look at the sign and turned it into a teachable moment. “I love your effort on the sign Billy/Sally. Let’s look it over before we take it to the rally. How many O’s does ‘school’ have? That’s right, two! Now how many are in your word? That’s right, one. Is that spelled correctly?” Etc…
It’s not making fun of a kid. It’s making fun of the idiot parents who boast of homeschooling their kids and do such an obviously poor job.
Ann B. Nonymous
@Church Lady: Unsurprising that a Republican with a cross-dresser pseudonym will be biased towards the nut jobs. Defend, defend, defend evil; praise Satan’s works under the name of the Lord.
kay
@Violet:
Homeschoolers are able lobbyists. I wouldn’t worry about them. It’s a “movement” with all of the fervor that word usually entails.
I don’t think they need Church Lady playing defense. They’ve successfully changed laws in all 50 states. The Mighty Power of public schools is vastly overstated. Mostly they’re just trying to get the job done. If you want out, they’re more than happy to let you ride off into the sunset.
“Until this week, Texas-based retailer J.C. Penney thought the “HOME SKOOLED” T-shirt was cool enough to peddle on its racks in the kiddie section. Only after a heated e-mail and phone campaign by home schooling parents did the department store chain send a notice to J.C. Penney stores nationwide Wednesday advising them to remove the T-shirts. “It wasn’t our intent to sell an item that is offensive,” a company spokesman told the Associated Press”
Jackie
@kay:
That kid who wants to be a pilot may not be on a great path to achieving his goal, but at least no one is crushing his aspirations and boring him to death, day after day. He’s got a lot of life ahead of him, time for him not only to find out what he does not know (I learn these lessons daily), but also to learn what he does need to know. No real need to panic here–not any more than we panic for the millions of kids languishing in the public schools.
I’m generalizing the experience of hundreds and hundreds of families I worked with during my years as a leader in the movement. I saw every kind of situation, every kind of dysfunction (child, family, public school).
In the land of the free, and the home of the . . . experiments by parents who are educating their own children should get a pass. Messy, yes, all of them. Some failure. Some acceptable. Some awesome.
Oh, Sweet Jebus, I just reinvented the bell curve. Forgive, forgive.
Church Lady
@Chyron HR: I didn’t say it WAS photoshopped, I said it LOOKED photoshopped (and it does, in comparison to everything around it in the cropped version that appears here at BJ), so your lack of reading comprehension( i.e., is vs. looks) signals you might be the retarded one. It’s ok for me to say that – I have Sarah and Rush’s permission.
The full photo, showing the little kid holding the sign, as well as the partial sign behind him, at the Houston Press site, makes it look real. Why was the kid cropped out in the photo shown here? Is it because it’s not as funny when a little kid misspells something?
Violet
@kay:
Oh, I don’t worry about homeschool parents. I do worry about some of the kids because it doesn’t seem like they’re getting the best education available to them in many cases. In other cases it’s definitely great. And yeah, they’re very able lobbyists.
Church Lady
@Violet: Perhaps you can contact this miscreant mother and offer to adopt her child. It’s clear that she’s not fit to raise children and even more obvious that this unfortunate child would no doubt flourish (and learn to spell) in your more capable hands.
Jackie
Factually wrong. Homeschoolers have not “changed laws in all 50 states.” States have just stopped pushing back.
raff
Conservative protest signs are like grade-school science projects: the more ‘professional’ looking the entry, the more likely they had Daddy’s “help”.
Mock, if you will, these patriots that care enough to bring personally crafted representations of their discontent rather than be handed some professionally printed signage from the RNC, but god bless their little souls. They’re trying their best to succeed without Daddy’s help & that should be applauded. After all, what’s a few typos here & there when the fate of the nation hangs in the balance?
schrodinger's cat
Ok historical question, was home-schooling always this big? or is this a new phenomenon? The question I have is, how can a parent, no matter how well meaning and dedicated, replace an entire community (other children, teachers etc). Also what about labs? are these home-schooled children getting a good grounding in math and science?
Violet
@Church Lady:
What the heck? Just because I think this homeschooling parent isn’t doing a good job of homeschooling his or her child doesn’t mean I or anyone else should adopt the child. You are seriously out of line with such a suggestion.
Recognizing that a parent isn’t doing a good job of educating his or her child or children isn’t at all the same thing as saying, to quote you, “she’s not fit to raise children.” Parents are imperfect because they’re human. But recognizing one’s limitations is an important part of being an adult and a good parent. Clearly this parent has some limitations when it comes to homeschooling his or her child or children.
kay
@Jackie:
They have, Jackie. They set up certification processes that didn’t exist. My state’s involves a once a year letter to the school district from the homeschooling parent. In my state, we simply had required schooling from 1st grade to age 16, and a truancy statute. Now we have a homeschooling law. Where did that come from? Out of thin air?
kay
@Jackie:
I told you I’m not panicking.
I don’t have a dog in this fight. I simply stated my opinion, here, that I think states should revisit the regulations. I came to that opinion after looking at a lot of facts. Public (and private, actually) schools are heavily regulated, there’s lots of oversight, and there’s a reason for that.
I came to that. I didn’t approach this initially with an opinion, and I’m not a member of any movement, pro or con. I did encounter the movement, however, and I don’t think you’re a member of some maligned and unfairly treated group, ground up under the state’s boot heel. That wasn’t what I found to be true.
Jackie
@kay: You claimed they changed the law in all 50 states. Factually wrong.
Cassidy
Eh…it’s been around for a while. If I remember right, it started as a way for parents of bright children to tailor thier education, as the schools weren’t up to the job. Then fundies got ahold of the process to keep that “upptiy lernin” from infecting the kids with anything beyond “God, Jesus, the bible and no buttseks”. Math and science is for suckers going to higher learning, 2+2= baby jesus, and all that.
Zuzu's Petals
@Church Lady:
Right, that’s exactly the sort of perfectly formed lettering a first-grader would make.
/snark
Jackie
@Cassidy:
Pretty good “history” of homeschooling, except for the part when huge numbers of parents made the choice to educate at home for non-religious, non-ideological reasons. Has one of your children come home with defeat in his eyes? Have you seen your child face every new school day with dread and anxiety? Then welcome to America, where that happens all the time.
Cassidy
@Jackie: No, because my kids aren’t a bunch of pansies.
I didn’t leave anything out. You are assuming that your story is the overall accurate narrative. So, you pulled your sensitive kids out of school and taught them to fly like free little birdies. Yay! Do you want a fucking cookie? Get over yourself. Maybe your kids will reward you by not putting you in a nursing home.
For every anecdote like yours, there are probably a dozen involving gifted children or overly religious parents.
Jon H
@Jackie: “The only thing my husband and I did that might have passed for “teaching” was the example of our lives—as readers, writers, people with intense interests, people with goals, people who have not needed credentials bestowed by Those On High to get where we are.”
And just how would these not have applied had your kids gone to school?
Spork
Damn, you people are stupid sometimes. You’re all correct, Jackie, Kay, Cassidy. You’re all also just talking past the what is in my opinion the issue here, to feel all self righteous about your positions, and have a chance to have a little snit against someone. Sorry.
The point is that it’s fine for ANYONE who is a qualified teacher to teach children, whether in a public, private, or home schooling environment, and parents DO have a right to remove their children from a failing educational environment, and children DO have a right to an education. Now, whether that entails the right of an unqualified parent to be the primary educator of a child is the issue.
Jackie, you’re qualified. Homescholer, you’re not. Devising the means to tell the competent from the incompetent should be the debate.
Cassidy
@Spork: I’m just trying to piss off the self-righteous.
My personal belief is that homeschooling is no more or less a better program than public schools. Some are good, some suck ass. I do think that homeschooling should have more regulation, but if people oppose and want to set their kids up for failure, that is their perogative. Me, I send my kids to public skills, teach them the coping skills to deal with bullies, both teacher and student type, and I get actively involved in what my kids are learning so that I can correct any inaccuracies.
But I don’t demand validation or a cookie for it. That’s just good parenting.
Spork
@Cassidy: “if people oppose and want to set their kids up for failure, that is their perogative.”
I gotta deal with those kids for the rest of their lives. Not that that’s important in regard to their or their parents rights, but it colors my opinion.
But yeah, I agree with you totally in that homeschooling is fine w/ me, but there must be regulation, or at a minimum, active supervision to maintain a standard equal to available public schooling in the area of the student.
kay
@Jackie:
Jackie, you can’t just keep stating your premise without elaborating.
Here. I’ll help. You’re making a pedantic distinction between drafting new laws, and changing laws. One of the ways you change the law is to write a new one.
Homeschoolers did that.
Homeschoolers were drafting laws according to their specifications. In state legislatures. Part of the reason they were able to do that is because there is a remarkable amount of deference in this country for anyone that claims religion. While I recognize that you are not in that particular group of the movement, I read the record, and that’s what happened.
Legislators, as usual, backed the hell down when the religious came in. The effort was organized (as you know) and that is lobbying. Most people didn’t pay attention because schools are a lot like Congress. Everyone hates “public schools”. They just don’t hate their own. Most people are fine with their public school.
The whole idea behind “public school” is “most people”. They don’t pretend to dovetail anything to each child. That’s why they’re different than private schools, or homeschooling.
When I worked on the case (for two years) I got familiar with the movement. I wasn’t impressed. The loudest were ideologues. They relied on broad-based indictments of public schools, and painted an unrealistic picture of homeschoolers. Nothing in the world is that black and white, and it’s the mark of an ideologues, to me.
I also don’t care for the whole homeschooling “movement”
victimization posture. I’m not going to throw you in the back of a patrol car and take you to school, although, as I said, I think truancy laws are due for another look.
Jim Newell
OLD HAT, COLE
Cassidy
As an NCO, I feel your pain.
kay
@Spork:
Well, no. We already discussed that idea. I think homeschoolers should be reasonably regulated, and Jackie does not.
She thinks they shouldn’t be regulated because public schools sometimes fail. I don’t get the connection, myself, but that’s where we parted ways.
I am not actually going to launch an initiative to regulate homeschooling, but I would suggest that it isn’t all hearts and flowers and committed parents out there, and I would also suggest that while Jackie (and me, actually) did not care for school, for a lot of ordinary kids and ordinary households school is the only “learning experience” they are likely to get. And those are the kids I deal with. For some of them, it’s the single best place they go. That’s reality.
Comrade Kevin
@Jim Newell: huh?
Spork
@Cassidy: @kay: I never had to be an NCO, just a technical guy, E-4 Specialist Radar Repairman, but I know what you have to deal with.
Sorry to paint w/ the broad brush Kay, I do come down on your side on that point.
I did not care for school myself, and was a high school dropout by the end of my freshman year. I did go on to a Community College 3 years after dropping out, and got an AAS on the honor roll. I do not attribute any of what success I have had in college, the military, or at my tech job to the education I received in public school. However, I was raised by parents that taught me to read before kindergarten, and grew up in a house full of books and no TV. The education kind of took care of itself after that. Most people do not have the environment I did, and I think it’s reasonable for the state to have at least a glancing interest that children are in fact being educated. I fear Jackie is suggesting a free for all, where parents have an absolute right to determine education for their kids, regardless of results or batshit insanity.
Spork
Goddamit. FYWP! I used my rank in a comment: E-4, not a Corporal, got hit with the soshulist spelling. repost below, sorry for when this shows up as a double post.
Your comment is awaiting moderation.
@Cassidy: @kay: I never had to be an NCO, just a technical guy, E-4 Speshulist Radar Repairman, but I know what you have to deal with.
Sorry to paint w/ the broad brush Kay, I do come down on your side on that point.
I did not care for school myself, and was a high school dropout by the end of my freshman year. I did go on to a Community College 3 years after dropping out, and got an AAS on the honor roll. I do not attribute any of what success I have had in college, the military, or at my tech job to the education I received in public school. However, I was raised by parents that taught me to read before kindergarten, and grew up in a house full of books and no TV. The education kind of took care of itself after that. Most people do not have the environment I did, and I think it’s reasonable for the state to have at least a glancing interest that children are in fact being educated. I fear Jackie is suggesting a free for all, where parents have an absolute right to determine education for their kids, regardless of results or batshit insanity.
Jim Newell
@Comrade Kevin: Oh don’t mind me, I been drinking alcohol.
http://wonkette.com/413608/whatever-you-are-thinking-right-now-it-counts-as-making-fun-of-trig
Tax Analyst
@Cassidy:
I just love that line. Got to be one of my favorites of late.
Spot-on overall comment. I was following along and willing to grant Jackie a few points, but the overall attitude of superiority got a little grating somewhere around the 10th or 12th angry lash-back at anyone who happened to have another opinion.
But home-schooling was definitely something Jackie should have had. Think of all the other kids that would have been saved from having to deal with her obnoxious attitude.
Irony Abounds
I get a bit tired of the public school bashing that routinely goes on all along the ideological divide. Are there crummy public schools? Absolutely. Just like there are bad charter schools and to a lesser extent bad private schools. The thing is, public schools have to take everyone that shows up. No matter how obnoxious the kid, no matter how lousy the parents. Public schools also have to deal with kids with emotional problems and other problems that take a great deal of time and effort to deal with. It’s great that kids with these problems have a place to learn, but don’t think for a second that it doesn’t detract from the learning of the other kids to at least some extent.
My wife teaches kindergarten, arrives at school around 7:15 and is there until 4:30 or 5:00 every day. She pours her heart and soul into teaching and her school, which has a mix of kids from all demographics, excels at producing good students. The public high school my kids have gone to has its good points and bad points, but somehow managed to give my oldest the ability to do very well in college and gain admittance into a select nursing college. It also produces a nationally ranked academic decathlon team. If parents take the time to get involved in their kids education, even public schools can do a great job.
ADAM
Wow what can’t photoshop do?
If this is a sample of what the democratic party believes, then good luck to you all in 2010 and 2012….
Jackie
Hmmm. It’s not hard to figure out who the schoolyard bullies are around here.
A little recommended reading: Drive: The Surprising Truth About What Motivates Us by Daniel H. Pink
Read the chapter entitled, “Take a Class from the Unschoolers” Then you might have a clue why imposing standards, rigor, structure, or whatever else on homeschooling would inhibit the best it has to offer.
Cassidy
@Jackie: Heh…oh, dear drama queen, if only you knew. I didn’t bully kids. I fought people’s bullies.
Jackie
@Cassidy:
I’m sure you believe that. Good for you.
Zuzu's Petals
@Tax Analyst:
She seems intent on proving you right, that’s for sure.
Chulachaser
First of all as someone who spent more than 10 years working as a professional photographer. I can say without question, despite what was said previously in this post, this photo is a fake. Clearly a flash was used to take this picture which is evidenced by the hot spots on both the sign and the hands holding it. Yet the person standing three inches away from the sign shows no signs of a flash and reflects only ambient lighting. This tactic is common among anti-homeschooling groups and yes they do exist. The unfortunate aspect of this is that these groups are often anti-Christian. Primarily because they are also uneducated on the realities of homeschooling, because those doing homeschooling are often not Christians. The other side of the coin, and I know I will catch a lot of flack over this even though it is true, they are also often Democrats.
The sad part of this is that it seems the uneducated ones are the throngs of people who have chosen to form opinions based on a fake photo. Perhaps they are the ones who lake education?
Dave
thats a fale fail…
Jackie
@Chulachaser:
Thanks for setting the record straight on the photo.
And, yes, you probably will “catch a lot of flack” because ad hominem attacks are the best some folks around here have to offer.
Zuzu's Petals
@Chulachaser:
That would be news to the press photographer who took it.
Which you might have known had you bothered to…you know, read the thread.