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Feb

Still Loving You

by John Cole

Love, your love, Just shouldn’t be thrown away. I will be there, I will be there:

McCain appears to shift on ‘don’t ask, don’t tell’

By Michael D. Shear- Wednesday, February 3, 2010; A09

Three years ago, Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.) was pretty clear about his stand on the military’s “don’t ask, don’t tell” policy.

A former war hero, McCain said he would support ending the ban once the military’s top brass told him that they agreed with the change.
“The day that the leadership of the military comes to me and says, ‘Senator, we ought to change the policy,’ then I think we ought to consider seriously changing it,” McCain said in October 2006 to an audience of Iowa State University students.

That day arrived Tuesday, with Defense Secretary Robert M. Gates and Joint Chiefs Chairman Mike Mullen testifying to senators after President Obama’s announcement that he would seek a congressional repeal of the 15-year-old policy.

Mullen called repealing the policy, which bans openly gay men and lesbians from serving, “the right thing to do” and said he was personally troubled by effectively forcing service members to “lie about who they are in order to defend their fellow citizens.”

Gates told the Armed Services Committee, “I fully support the president’s decision.”

In response, McCain declared himself “disappointed” in the testimony. “At this moment of immense hardship for our armed services, we should not be seeking to overturn the ‘don’t ask, don’t tell’ policy,” he said bluntly, before describing it as “imperfect but effective.”

You just gotta love the Kaplan Test Prep Daily and the incessant McCain worship in our media. Why, yes, Mr. Shear, it does “appear” that he has “shifted” on DADT. In much the same way that the sun “appears” to rise in the east, and that John Edwards “appears” to have cheated on his wife, and so on.

Can you imagine for one second if this were Al Gore or John Kerry who had done the complete and total about face on an issue? There would be no such mincing of words about “appearing” to “shift” positions, they would be labeled wishy-washy and unfit to lead and flip-floppers.

Plus, Al Gore is fat. Also, too.

Mainstream Media's McCain Mancrush | 9:41 am |

106 Responses to “Still Loving You”

1
February 3rd, 2010 at 9:43 am
Jude

But the sun does “appear” to rise in the east. It’s the earth’s rotation on its axis that makes the sun seem to move.

Ha! Suck on that, libs! Also, it’s Rahm’s fault.

/snark
2
February 3rd, 2010 at 9:47 am
dmsilev

Notice that McCain doesn’t actually give any reason for opposing the policy change, beyond “I think it will be bad”. Evidence, logic, listening to testimony, all irrelevant.

All that matters to him now is (a) Obama beat him for President and he’s bitter, and (b) he’s got a nasty primary fight coming and is in base suck-up mode. That (a) and (b) work in concert is just a bonus.

-dms
3
February 3rd, 2010 at 9:49 am
Ash

McCain’s people tried to explain it away by saying Mullen only speaks for himself and that Gates is a mouthpiece for Obama, that neither of them really truly represent the “leadership of the military.”

It appears that his staff is going senile too.
4
February 3rd, 2010 at 9:49 am
Ted the Slacker

MoDo today:

[McCain] who has always been known for honor and clarity…

Normally I’d say, yep, nice biting commentary Mz Dowd. But such is the genuine media McCaincrush that I’m not sure here… snark or not? Anyone?
5
February 3rd, 2010 at 9:49 am
Ash Can

Hell, I’m pleasantly surprised that the WaPo mentioned this at all.
6
February 3rd, 2010 at 9:51 am
burnspbesq

And lest we forget, the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals is full of crackpot liberals.

http://my.earthlink.net/articl.....be3be48e9f
7
February 3rd, 2010 at 9:52 am
Kryptik

Why does Obama want to repeal DADT in a recession?! Doesn’t he know the effect that’d have on the military! There’d be mass washouts all over the place, and those soldiers can’t afford to leave the military because of their families! Why does Obama hate poor soldiers?!

(Oh, goddammit, I went for snark again and ended up posting a wingnut argument verbatim. Why does reality have to suck so goddamn much?)
8
February 3rd, 2010 at 9:54 am
mr. whipple

Obama on Cspan 2 at 10 am est at the Democratic Senate retreat.
9
February 3rd, 2010 at 9:54 am
burnspbesq

@Ash:

Wait a sec: did they really say that the views of the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff don’t truly reflect the leadership of the military?

That puts them squarely in the “too stupid to live” category.
10
February 3rd, 2010 at 9:54 am
jrg

John McCain is 900 years old. What difference does it make in the long run what his stance is?

He may as well milk the GOP bigotry for his own short-term goals (getting re-elected), because in a couple of years, he’ll be worm food.

At that point, the GOP will have already done an about-face, and will claim that they were fighting for gay rights the whole time… right around the time the demographic shift compels the change. There is no downside for them.
11
February 3rd, 2010 at 9:57 am
Quinn

Imperfect but effective = separate but equal
12
February 3rd, 2010 at 9:58 am
Skippy-san

McCain is not running for President now, so he can speak his mind. I realize that bothers some folks-but its what the reason is here.

People forget that McCain is a retired Captain and like a lot of retirees he might have strong feelings on the issue.

My best question would be so what? This train is leaving the station-we’ll see if it is as really uneventful as its proponents say it is.
13
February 3rd, 2010 at 9:59 am
Scruffy McSnufflepuss

If we repeal the ban on gays in the military, our military will turn out like the militaries of Sparta and Thebes. They had gays in the military, and today those nation-states no longer exist- they are ruled by a nation called Greece, whose capital is their ancient enemy, Athens.

I don’t want to see that happen in America. That is why I oppose gays in the military.
14
February 3rd, 2010 at 10:00 am
demo woman

@burnspbesq: There is some type of error with the sentence because when Clinton was President he did not catch terrorists.
15
February 3rd, 2010 at 10:03 am
Violet

I think it’s funny that McCain is being primaried by a teabagger. He’s got to oppose eliminating DADT or the teabagger will use it against him. Hilarious stuff to watch. McCain isn’t smart enough to explain away this kind of stuff.
16
February 3rd, 2010 at 10:05 am
Comrade javafascist

FWIW, McCain was better off not stating a reason for his opposition. Duncan Hunter went on NPR last night and his first rationale for opposing lifting the ban was “Hermaphrodites and Transsexuals” would be able to serve, No. Really. My 14 year old daughter, who makes fun of me yelling at the radio, actually said out loud “What the hell is he talking about?” I was proud.
17
February 3rd, 2010 at 10:05 am
thomas Levenson

@dmsilev:

All that matters to him now is (a) Obama beat him for President and he’s bitter, and (b) he’s got a nasty primary fight coming and is in base suck-up mode. That (a) and (b) work in concert is just a bonus.

This.
Also: McCain has been a parody of a legislator/leader for his entire career. His is a completely post-modern resume; he is considered, honorable, worthy, hell—even intellectually capable of running a 7-11—because he says so, and enough people with big megaphones repeat.
That he (or his spouse/funder) is rich as Croesus and that he carries water for/comforts the comforted in the never-ending struggle with the afflicted are, of course, necessary features, not bugs.
18
February 3rd, 2010 at 10:05 am
Bad Horse's Filly

John, there is some prime snark in your posts this week. Totally loving it. And everytime McCain/Palin open their respective mouths I am reminded of how close we came.
19
February 3rd, 2010 at 10:07 am
Zifnab

Can you imagine for one second if this were Al Gore or John Kerry who had done the complete and total about face on an issue? There would be no such mincing of words about “appearing” to “shift” positions, they would be labeled wishy-washy and unfit to lead and flip-floppers.

The difference between John McCain and John Kerry is that John McCain took a very popular but impractical support for gay rights back when no legislation was on the table and he had absolutely no influence on DADT. But now that he has the opportunity to affect change, he has wisely switched to a more acceptable – abet less populist – conservative stance.

Meanwhile, John Kerry originally supported a necessary war only because of the blind panic generated by 9/11. After the air had cooled and Kerry had a chance to review the proposed legislation, he did the unpatriotic thing and scrapped his support for ideological and “practical” reasons, turning on what was a just and necessary war against a merciless foreign dictator, all to gin up some grass roots demagoguery. And thank god he failed.

So, in that sense, they’re two very different people. McCain is supporting the stereotypical “average American” view that the Washington media currently envisions exists. John Kerry is not.
20
February 3rd, 2010 at 10:13 am
GregB

Burns,

I notice that the flaming liberal-appeaser-soft-on-crime judge was appointed by noted hippie and ACLU fanboy Ronald Reagan.

-G
21
February 3rd, 2010 at 10:14 am
Alex S.

It appears that John McCain was a POW.
22
February 3rd, 2010 at 10:15 am
Ash

@burnspbesq: This is from the same WaPo article, John just didn’t post this part

McCain spokeswoman Brooke Buchanan said her boss has not shifted his position. She noted that Mullen said repeatedly that he was speaking for himself and not for the military, and she dismissed Gates’s testimony because he was expressing the Obama administration’s line. “There has to be a determination from our military leaders that they think it is a good idea to change the policy; then, of course, Senator McCain will listen to them.”
23
February 3rd, 2010 at 10:16 am
t jasper parnell

Desegregation of the armed services is an example of social change during a time of military engagement, not during “peacetime.” Although V-E and V-J days had long passed by the time President Truman issued an executive order calling for military desegregation in 1948, World War II itself had not formally come to a close. The U.S. occupied Germany, Japan and other nations, and the Supreme Court continued to uphold exercises of Congress’s war power. World War II slid into the Cold War, which included the use of the Air Force during the 1948 Berlin Airlift. And as has been widely noted, desegregation was accomplished in the Army in the context of the need for ground troops in the Korean War.

Granted this is from a non-crazy who actually knows something about something; however, it does appear that McCain doesn’t know what he is talking about.
24
February 3rd, 2010 at 10:17 am
slag

What mr. whipple said. Link: http://cspan.org/Watch/C-SPAN2.aspx.
25
February 3rd, 2010 at 10:18 am
Dan Robinson

The media has such a man crush on McCain, they don’t realize that it takes a roto-rooter to manscape him.
26
February 3rd, 2010 at 10:20 am
scav

@Comrade javafascist: Yup, the dreaded and hard to spell hermaphrodites and transgendereds are coming!! Yeah, that comment is right up there with my still-favorite rationale of it opening the door to alcohol, adultery and tattoos. Umm, have these people ever reliably been able to distinguish their plastic soldiers from the actual fighting forces, even now, let alone from when there was a draft? Their sainted eyebrows would pop to the stratosphere if they ever figured out the predilections of bears.
27
February 3rd, 2010 at 10:21 am
Face

Kaplan Test Prep Daily? Must you copy every Duncan Black euphanism? Got nothing original, eh?
28
February 3rd, 2010 at 10:22 am
Morbo

That’s right; the only real military leaders are Petraeus and McChrystal. Gates is just part of the civilian leadership. Mullen was in the Navy, and you know what they say in the Navy.
29
February 3rd, 2010 at 10:24 am
Max

Obama is telling the Dem Senate to “finish the job on healthcare” and reminds them why they got into office.
30
February 3rd, 2010 at 10:25 am
Andy

Skippy-san wrote

McCain is not running for President now, so he can speak his mind.

He’s not running for president, but he is being primaried by a far-right, teabagging talk-radio host. That undoubtedly has a lot to do with his statement yesterday. Shorter version: he’s not a “maverick,” just some mediocre pol trying to keep his seat.

People forget that McCain is a retired Captain and like a lot of retirees he might have strong feelings on the issue.

Andrew Exum addressed this succinctly yesterday:

Congressmen and members of the public should pay less attention to the many retired flag officers (average date of commission: 1835) who oppose homosexuals openly serving in the U.S. military and should instead poll serving U.S. soldiers, sailors, airmen and Marines. That’s who Laura Miller and RAND will be polling. Their opinions, when combined with the desired policy preferences of the greater U.S. public, should be what matters. I could care less what some dude who garrisoned Shanghai in 1932 thinks.

I’m pretty sure John McCain was a retired captain in 2006, too, when he actually held a rational position on the issue. The issue here is not that he’s opposed to removing DADT, but that he explicitly said, not so long ago, that he was open to re-evaluating the policy when the military leadership said it was time to do so. That happened yesterday, and Senator McCain clearly lost the courage of his convictions—if he ever had them.

Can we get some video of McCain windsurfing, please?

I honestly don’t think the personal discomfort of a retired officer whose last line assignment was over thirty years ago, is particularly relevant. Or, for that matter, the personal discomfort of senior, active-duty officers now. Almost every other Western European military—and Israel’s—has gone through this process with minimal disruption or loss of troops. It’s a straw man, frankly, and does a real disservice to our military. You give our military—from Secretary Gates on down—too little credit.
31
February 3rd, 2010 at 10:26 am
Hari

I like the term “former war hero”. Once a war hero, aren’t you always a war hero? Is the Post dissing McCain?
32
February 3rd, 2010 at 10:27 am
JGabriel

Reposted. Don’t release from moderation.
33
February 3rd, 2010 at 10:29 am
Ash Can

@Max: I was thinking more that he was telling them to grow a pair, already, but yes. This. :)
34
February 3rd, 2010 at 10:31 am
JGabriel

Please explain to me again why anyone gives a fuck what John McCain thinks and why McCain isn’t instead doing Vee-agra commercials like the last Republican who lost a presidential election, aside from the “ick factor” which, let’s face it, never stopped Bob Dole.

And, suddenly, I’m rethinking the word choice of “let’s face it” ...

.
35
February 3rd, 2010 at 10:31 am
burnspbesq

@Face:

Got a problem with factual accuracy? If not for the profits earned by Kaplan, WaPo would have cratered long ago. Go read a 10-K.
36
February 3rd, 2010 at 10:32 am
Belafon (formerly anonevent)

@Face: Must you come in and whine about a phrase that Doug has been using for quite a while now? I mean, what’s the point?
37
February 3rd, 2010 at 10:35 am
Max

@Ash Can: I did like when he reminded them they had the 2nd largest majority in history.
38
February 3rd, 2010 at 10:36 am
SRW1

Notice that McCain doesn’t actually give any reason for opposing the policy change, beyond “I think it will be bad”.

Glad you asked. John’s opposition is based on a heartfelt principle: Obama’s for it and Cindy’s for it. That’s why he’s against it.
39
February 3rd, 2010 at 10:40 am
AWS

Shear didn’t write the headline, most likely. The anonymous headline writer should be blamed.
40
February 3rd, 2010 at 10:40 am
The Moar You Know

McCain will be dead in a few years, at most. Who cares what he thinks?
41
February 3rd, 2010 at 10:44 am
ThatLeftTurnInABQ

@Max:

Obama is telling the Dem Senate to “finish the job on healthcare” and reminds them why they got into office.

I understand what Obama is trying to say in plain English, but that could be misinterpreted after it is tranlated into Senatoreese, i.e.:

“Finish the job” = What the Roman Senate did with Julius Ceasar.
“Why they got into office” = $$$, hookers ‘n blow

Maybe Obama needs to tell them what to do more directly: pass a bill that helps the average American, despite the reasons why they got into office. “World’s Greatest Deliberative Body” = Biggest pack of overpaid, underworked WATBs and borderline traitorous scum in the nation. It’s all in how you translate.

Edit: Add Bloviating Bags of Botulism to the description above. And since you ask, no, this isn’t how I really feel about the Senate. This is the mild version.
42
February 3rd, 2010 at 10:48 am
Max

The Prez is raising his voice. He’s getting pissed folks. Blanche Lincoln may have brought out “The Rock” Obama.
43
February 3rd, 2010 at 10:48 am
JGabriel

MoDo:

Senator Saxby Chambliss of Georgia said that if they began to loosen one restriction, others might unravel, leading to a louche atmosphere brimming with “alcohol use, adultery, fraternization and body art.”

Isn’t he adorable?

Come here, Saxby, we have some bad news to share with you …

.
44
February 3rd, 2010 at 10:49 am
J.A.F. Rusty Shackleford

If McCain loses his primary will he end up running in the general election as an independent?

I’m going to go register every variation of the “Arizona for McCain Party” and see if I can get a payout from his wife.
45
February 3rd, 2010 at 10:51 am
slag

Blanche Lincoln…what an ass! Hearing Obama smack her down makes me very happy. And very reassured that our biggest problem is the Senate.

However, it’s disheartening insomuch as the Senate is a problem that seems almost impossible to solve.
46
February 3rd, 2010 at 10:52 am
ajr22

McCain is old!! Should’ve been out of the game years ago but he can’t stay home because he hates his wife! You’ve met her at the Christmas parties. She’s the one that gets plastered and calls him a retard.
47
February 3rd, 2010 at 10:53 am
canuckistani

At that point, the GOP will have already done an about-face, and will claim that they were fighting for gay rights the whole time… right around the time the demographic shift compels the change. There is no downside for them.

In 20 years time, they’ll be claiming Dan Savage was a Republican.
48
February 3rd, 2010 at 10:54 am
ThatLeftTurnInABQ

@JGabriel:

Senator Saxby Chambliss of Georgia said that if they began to loosen one restriction, others might unravel, leading to a louche atmosphere brimming with “alcohol use, adultery, fraternization and body art.”

Rachel M. mentioned that part on her show last night. She was sitting in the gallery of the Senate hearing room at the time Chambliss expressed his fear of ‘tats in the military, and said she heard somebody sitting behind her audibly snort coffee out of their nose at that point.
49
February 3rd, 2010 at 10:56 am
Seanly

We have to impeach President McCain for this most egregious flip-flop. Won’t someone think of the children?
50
February 3rd, 2010 at 10:56 am
Mike E

@Violet:

I think it’s funny that McCain is being primaried by a teabagger

Funnier still, will be the moment he gets caught on camera yelling at them to get off his lawn. Heads will ‘splode.
51
February 3rd, 2010 at 10:58 am
GambitRF

Yeah but Saxby Chambliss tells me that repealing DADT will lead to alcohol and tattoos. I mean, can you possibly imagine that in the military?!

http://bit.ly/acsffO
52
February 3rd, 2010 at 10:58 am
Kryptik

Who here wants to bet that the media will end up only giving testimonials from soldiers who are afraid of the military becoming an extension of Project Runway (despite many, many polls noting little problem from the majority of enlisted), now that the sainted bipartisan good ol’ folks in Washington like McCain have come out against repealing DADT?

My gut is that the issue is gonna get tea partied, with Bachmann and folk coming onto Fox News to worry about sudden mandatory homosexuality in the barracks.
53
February 3rd, 2010 at 10:58 am
Napoleon

@slag:

How did he smake her down?
54
February 3rd, 2010 at 11:06 am
mcd410x

@GambitRF: The GOP has less than nothing … less. And still too often the Democrats cower.
55
February 3rd, 2010 at 11:08 am
JGabriel

Reposted—forgot to misspell socilaist. Don’t release from moderation.

.
56
February 3rd, 2010 at 11:09 am
JGabriel

Will Obama speak at the Senate retreat for each of the other two parties, Connecticut for Lieberman and the Democratic SociaIist Party of Vermont (or whatever party line ballot Sanders is running on these days)?

Because I’d really like to see those speeches and Q&A’s.

.
57
February 3rd, 2010 at 11:09 am
jenniebee

Looks like they missed entirely the best part of McCain’s comment, where he accused the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of “bias” for having formed his opinion of what was best for the military without considering the opinion of Congress on the matter.

And by Congress, of course, he means the Congressional Minority.

And they call Obama arrogant.
58
February 3rd, 2010 at 11:11 am
Michael D.

I’ve always had an issue with the right’s assertion that recruitment will decline if gays are allowed to serve openly.

It’s as if they have never heard of our legendary recruiting abilities or something.
59
February 3rd, 2010 at 11:12 am
Mike E

Ha—Omentum said about China on solar panels: “They’re gonna lap us, but they’re not a democracy, they have no fillibuster rule.” Teabaggers worst soshalysm fears confirmed.
60
February 3rd, 2010 at 11:13 am
slag

@Napoleon: She wanted to “work with Republicans” and “stand up to members of our own party” who are being “too extreme”. He said that Republican policies are to blame for stagnant middle class incomes and that we can’t keep doing the same thing and expecting a different result.
61
February 3rd, 2010 at 11:14 am
gwangung

My gut is that the issue is gonna get tea partied, with Bachmann and folk coming onto Fox News to worry about sudden mandatory homosexuality in the barracks.

So..is the progressive response going to be “just sit there and not do anything to counter it”?
62
February 3rd, 2010 at 11:15 am
JGabriel

@Michael D.: Zing! Nicely played, Michael.

.
63
February 3rd, 2010 at 11:17 am
Mike E

Now Evan Bayh just put on his Droopy mask, grabbed a hippy and punched her in the ovaries. Heh, indeed.
64
February 3rd, 2010 at 11:18 am
Very Reverend Crimson Fire of Compassion

OT, but . . .OMFG! Tha White House finally begins (please, God, let it be a beginning) to push back against the “liberal” media!
65
February 3rd, 2010 at 11:20 am
Andy

Kryptik wrote:

My gut is that the issue is gonna get tea partied, with Bachmann and folk coming onto Fox News to worry about sudden mandatory homosexuality in the barracks.

That’s not the half of it—that’s only the first step toward imposing government-run health care on our fighting men and women. Can a government takeover of the entire military be far behind?
66
February 3rd, 2010 at 11:20 am
demo woman

I don’t have cable, did Fox News air the President speaking to the democratic party?
67
February 3rd, 2010 at 11:20 am
Michael

OT, but here’s another fine episode of Hee Haw….

http://www.freerepublic.com/fo.....3459/posts

Ray LaHood suggests to not drive your unsafe, recalled Toyotas until they’re repaired. Goobers scream about the assault on “freedom” and confabulate it all as a plot by the Government to shatter Toyota.

I fucking hate those people. They can’t bring on the death panels soon enough.
68
February 3rd, 2010 at 11:24 am
Surly Duff

Maybe he rewatched Top Gun, found some of the obvious undercurrents that he had not seen before and decided to change his position. This should provide all the proof anyone needs: Top Gun And you know what happened as a result of this romantic dalliance between Maverick and Iceman? Goose died. Try to refute that evidence!
69
February 3rd, 2010 at 11:27 am
Kryptik

@gwangung:

I hope not. My worry is moreso Democrats in general not doing anything to counter it (especially those nitwits who consider McCain their colleague).
70
February 3rd, 2010 at 11:27 am
Mike E

Elvis has left the building. The crank calls begin.
The repeat airs on CSPAN2 at 8pm.
71
February 3rd, 2010 at 11:30 am
BR

Colin Powell just backed Mullen/Gates on DADT:

http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com.....93041.aspx

Powell was who McCain specifically cited.
72
February 3rd, 2010 at 11:31 am
Napoleon

@slag:

Good for him. Stuff like that needs to be said.
73
February 3rd, 2010 at 11:31 am
slag

@Mike E: I loved the guy who proposed we give consumers more money to spend by taking the money we gave to the banks and using it to pay down the deficit. That’s the kind of economic thinking we just don’t hear enough of. And that guy claimed to be a business owner!
74
February 3rd, 2010 at 11:32 am
suzanne

@Andy:

I honestly don’t think the personal discomfort of a retired officer whose last line assignment was over thirty years ago, is particularly relevant. Or, for that matter, the personal discomfort of senior, active-duty officers now.

I personally don’t give a flying fuck in a rolling doughnut about anyone’s personal discomfort at any level. That’s why being in the military is a job, not a trip to Club Med. The arguments inevitably boil down to “queers are icky”, and silly me, I just don’t think that’s a compelling enough reason to deny roughly 10% of the U.S. population their civil rights.

There’s also so much sexism in the anti-gay arguments. Women in the military have had to endure all the crap the anti-gays are absolutely convinced will happen to them for years, and yet rape goes unpunished, and male-on-female harassment and assault continue. It’s complete horseshit, but that’s the fear.
75
February 3rd, 2010 at 11:33 am
Roger Moore

@Morbo:

Mullen was in the Navy, and you know what they say in the Navy.

They say that John McCain never listened to Admirals while he was in the Navy, so there’s no reason to expect him to do so now.
76
February 3rd, 2010 at 11:35 am
Morbo

@Michael D.: Truly, I mean, think of what a boon to recruitment it would be if those lesbian gangs which roam the Atlantic coast turned their attention from turning straight women gay to recruiting for the military. Enlistment would skyrocket.
77
February 3rd, 2010 at 11:35 am
gwangung

@Kryptik: My take is that if that’s the fear, war game it out. Figure out the probable and most effective responses NOW and get ready to implement. And I mean you and me…start the planning now and get the meme out there now, so that the grassroots aren’t fumbling for a response when it happens.

Maybe you and I can’t organize (though people are more capable of that than they realize), but we can certainly figure out good responses and have that ready, and indicate it to others when it happens.

Teabaggers want to march? Bring in Dan Choi. Or ask the teabaggers how many of THEM served. Or get current military to say how irrelevant it is to them.
78
February 3rd, 2010 at 11:36 am
Mike E

@slag: Judd Gregg sez, “Nooooo!!”
You’ll have to excuse me, I have to call in now about the Feds rounding up us ordinary Merkuns to do forced labor in their FEMA camps.
79
February 3rd, 2010 at 11:36 am
DougL (frmrly: Conservatively Liberal)

@Michael:

Never mind that these Amurika luvin’ morans are defending Toyota being slow on the fix and accusing the Obama administration of wanting to destroy Toyota to assist “Government Motors”. These people aren’t even half-wits, they’re total fucking dumbshits. All they can do is hate the ‘other’, whatever the fuck it is. Anything that doesn’t have their stamp of approval is wrong and bad, end of story. They don’t want to coexist with people who are not like them, being ‘different’ is bad.

They are blind, stupid hate looking for a place to happen.
80
February 3rd, 2010 at 11:36 am
scav

@suzanne:

Women in the military have had to endure all the crap the anti-gays are absolutely convinced will happen to them for years, and yet rape goes unpunished, and male-on-female harassment and assault continue. It’s complete horseshit, but that’s the fear.

I did always enjoy the underlying rationale that your average Marine had less cojones than any reasonably attractive blond walking past a construction site. “ooooh!! he’s looking at me!!”
81
February 3rd, 2010 at 11:39 am
Kryptik

@suzanne:

Don’t forget the ridiculousness of depleting a ridiculously significant number of our translation corps, while we were busy fighting two ‘wars’ in foreign countries, just because most of those translators ended up being gay. Especially since the lack of viable translators was noted…and then what translators that were left were STILL being discharged for having ‘teh gay’.
82
February 3rd, 2010 at 11:39 am
John Cole

@Face: What is wrong with using terms Atrios has coined? He is right, and it fits. Why is that a problem?
83
February 3rd, 2010 at 11:46 am
PTirebiter

@Hari:
McCain was a war hero?
84
February 3rd, 2010 at 11:48 am
Mike E

@John Cole: Uh oh, somebody has on their McCranky pants.
Face is all jealous ‘cause he thinks he can run this joint better, seeing that he’s been blogging medicated and one-handed for years.
85
February 3rd, 2010 at 11:49 am
ChrisB

@BR: Just kills McCain’s argument. Not that he had a leg to stand on anyway.
86
February 3rd, 2010 at 11:50 am
moe99

@burnspbesq: You probably know this, but the Federal District Judge the 9th Cir reversed, John Coughenour, is a Reagan appointee.

Sorry, GregB—missed your comment originally.
87
February 3rd, 2010 at 11:52 am
suzanne

@scav:

I did always enjoy the underlying rationale that your average Marine had less cojones than any reasonably attractive blond walking past a construction site. “ooooh!! he’s looking at me!!”

Seriously. It boils down to “I DON’T WANT SOMEONE I’M NOT INTO HITTING ON ME! I want to do the hitting on, because I am en-cock-er-fulled!”

If that were my criterion for my behavior in the public sphere, I would not be able to leave my house. Yet, somehow, despite all odds, I carry on.
88
February 3rd, 2010 at 11:59 am
Mike E

@suzanne: Well, you have to admit that Shouty’s two faces look pretty dashing in those Navy whites.
89
February 3rd, 2010 at 12:09 pm
Ash

Ok, serious question, why ARE so many translators gay?
90
February 3rd, 2010 at 12:24 pm
Randy P

@Ash: About 10%. Is that “so many” or does it reflect the general population?
91
February 3rd, 2010 at 12:30 pm
ruemara

@ Ash

Language is an art and teh ghey has +10 to your artistickal stats. Says so in the rule book.
92
February 3rd, 2010 at 12:31 pm
FlipYrWhig

Is it possible that one day conservatives might learn that there is in fact a difference between “gay” and “girlish”? They clearly think everyone who is gay is a screaming queen, or would be if they weren’t trying desperately to conceal their terrible, terrible shame. I guess it goes along with thinking that their own gelatinous selves are so irreproachably masculine.
93
February 3rd, 2010 at 12:38 pm
JGabriel

ruemara:

Language is an art and teh ghey has +10 to your artistickal stats.

Dungeons & Strap-ons?

.
94
February 3rd, 2010 at 12:39 pm
ruemara

@JGabriel:

Sounds like a Pride In Gaming Event. I would attend.
95
February 3rd, 2010 at 12:46 pm
shortstop

Ok, serious question, why ARE so many translators gay?

Because gays love terrorists and want to be able to chat with them after they turn the greatest military force in the world into a giant bathhouse with compulsive participation. This is outside their regular gay recruitment duties, of course. They’re busy people, but we all know their organizational skills are as sharp as their decorating sense.

Seriously, I’ve wondered whether there really is a slightly higher proportion or whether they’re just getting more attention because we’re so short of Arabic linguists. No idea what the answer is, but Randy P’s probably right—it’s likely the same as the general pop.

But I still think an element of McCain’s latest crap, beyond his reflexive contrariness to anything Obama does and his need to suck up to his state’s ‘bagger brigade, is his wanting to smack down his gay-loving wife. I see no reason to think that the spite he amply demonstrates toward virtually everyone who has the gall to disagree with him in public would not extend to his wife. The guy is, among his numerous other character faults, a raging control freak.
96
February 3rd, 2010 at 12:53 pm
WereBear

@JGabriel: Hmmm.

Senator Saxby Chambliss of Georgia said that if they began to loosen one restriction, others might unravel, leading to a louche atmosphere brimming with “alcohol use, adultery, fraternization and body art.”

For not the first time, I am struck with how much they rely on external controls to keep their Id from rampaging through society like a frat kid on crack.

This is the “man standing over you with a big stick” school of motivation.
97
February 3rd, 2010 at 12:54 pm
Pangloss

This is EXACTLY the kind of Mavericky maverickness that so many Republicans voted for in 2008.
98
February 3rd, 2010 at 12:56 pm
Ash

@Randy P: Well I mean “so many” in the sense that people almost always bring up the fact that of the discharged many of them are translators and linguists.
99
February 3rd, 2010 at 1:03 pm
Comrade Kevin

Damnit, Cole, now I have that horrible Scorpions song stuck in my head.
100
February 3rd, 2010 at 1:19 pm
scav

@Ash: Why bring up your fingernail biting when you’re sticking a fork in your eyes at the same time?

TRANSLATION: reporting bias added to importance bias.
101
February 3rd, 2010 at 1:24 pm
Cathy W

@Ash: The discharged translators and linguists have a bit of a resonance to their cases – their skills are rare and vital, and we can’t simply stick a randomly-selected new recruit into their slot. I would assume people with other specialties are getting discharged at a similar rate, but since they’re generally easier to replace it’s harder to use them as an example of DADT actually serving to weaken the military.
102
February 3rd, 2010 at 1:45 pm
lol

From the same author, an article about how the anti-lobbyist McCain is almost entirely advised by lobbyists. Seems like a good article overall but Shear still ends up saying crap like this…

A common career path for political operatives is a lucrative job at a Washington lobbying firm that allows them to continue campaign work, and McCain is hardly the first candidate to draw on that talent pool. The campaign of Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton (D-N.Y.) has been aided by lobbyists Harold Ickes and Mark Penn, who heads Burson Marsteller Worldwide. Sen. Barack Obama (D-Ill.) has been advised by former senator Thomas A. Daschle (D-S.D.), who is not a registered lobbyist but advises clients about Washington.

Essentially, McCain is a massive hypocrite but Clinton is advised by two lobbyists and Obama is advised by someone who is not a lobbyist so both sides are equally bad. Also.
103
February 3rd, 2010 at 2:51 pm
AxelFoley

@jrg:

John McCain is 900 years old. What difference does it make in the long run what his stance is?

“When nine hundred years old you reach, look as good, you will not, hm?”
—Yoda
104
February 3rd, 2010 at 3:44 pm
Skippy-san

@74 suzanne

There’s a way to get the doubters on board-tell them it will be like the intergration of women into squadrons and ships.

Not!

This is not about getting along together. Its about whether these folks will really be treated “the same”. Knowing the military, they will create a new class of preferred customers just like what happened with women.

Will there be “GAY” stamps on service records to ensure that the right percentage of gays are promoted to ensure “diversity”?

Will public affairs officers slobber all over themselves printing press releases touting the “first openly gay Commanding Officer”?

Will there be enlistment quotas and targets to ensure a “critical mass” of gay troops?

And when will we have to start observing Gay History Month?

If you want it to be like the integration of women-that is what will happen. Heterosexual white males will have one more strike against them.

If you can assure me that none of those things are going to happen-you’ll get a lot more folks on board.
105
February 3rd, 2010 at 4:36 pm
suzanne

@Skippy-san:

If you want it to be like the integration of women-that is what will happen. Heterosexual white males will have one more strike against them.

***playing the world’s smallest violin for all those heterosexual white males and all the institutionalized discrimination they face***
106
February 3rd, 2010 at 7:59 pm
mcc

Duncan Hunter went on NPR last night and his first rationale for opposing lifting the ban was “Hermaphrodites and Transsexuals” would be able to serve

Actually, this was something I’ve been wondering about! Currently transgender and intersex individuals are not effected either way by DADT, but are nevertheless barred from the armed forces; intersexed persons are considered medically unqualified, whereas transsexualism is considered a psychological condition that makes one unfit for service. (The specific military regulation that covers this is worded in an unusually archaic and nasty way, simply listing transsexualism in a longer list of “paraphilias”.) I had been wondering if the move toward finally allowing homosexuals in the military at any point provides an opportunity to question the separate policy keeping out the transgendered; so far though Hunter is the first person I’ve seen bring the idea up.

Kind of fascinating that this was the first thing that came to Duncan Hunter’s mind, though—his biggest concern with reducing discrimination against a group[ is that it might impact his future ability to discriminate against another, even more hated group.