2.) Are the roles reversed anywhere else in the civilized world- is there some place where candidates, on their respective national television channels, play out their war fantasies in which they nuke the United States?

Oh, yes. Just the other day, we had our minister of the interiors point out that in the immigration related cases, they face difficulties keeping their stated targets when it comes to finalizing work- permits (they should be higher) and granting reunions and naturalisation possibilities (they should be lower), because of an influx of refugees, asylum seekers and american politicians who are no longer welcome in their native habitats.

All of which generate a tremendous strain on our budgets due to increased costs in councelling and integration related matters.

It also presents an increased security risk, and the interior minister has determined together with the best our government has to offer in thinkers, that the United States is the cause of all our troubles (all of them, but also including the security one, obviously). Because of the instability they cause not only around the world, but inside their country as well.

It thus is the conclusion of the specially appointed by royal decree “committee of truthiness and very wise decisions that shall not be questioned, peasant!”, that we must strike at the heart of the enemy, and bring “compassion and long lasting peace” with “determination and skill befitting the motherland’s finest” through military force if necessary. When pressed the minister admitted, with the most serious tone he could muster, that “all options are on the table”, and that if necessary, our army of mad cybernetic monkeys will be unleashed to protect our interests. He added – “I mean, I can’t say we’re not going to fucking use them, can I! What the fuck would be the reason for us spending decades training the little bastards then, huh?! What about your tax- money? Down the goddamn drain, that’s where – but I can’t SAY that, now can I, you shitheadsgetmeacoffee”.

In the meantime, we await “signals” from the United States so they can prove their good intentions towards our unrestrained and expansive reign of monkey. And that they are not harboring dangerous war- criminals and the seeds of destruction for our very way of life (even if they do not exist yet, as such – but they will!).

Being a war- criminal harboring dangerous country that is a threat to our nation, naturally we’re not listening to anything the US has to say. The monkeys are being powered up as we speak.

A.) John Cole will repeat any anti-Clinton frame. Any Frame, Any Time. No longer a loyal Republican, but still a team player, and he knows all the rules.

2.) Are the roles reversed anywhere else in the civilized world- is there some place where candidates, on their respective national television channels, play out their war fantasies in which they nuke the United States?

B.) I’ll take George Bush and Taiwan for $1,000 Alex. Sadly, I lose, since it only counts if you’re a Clinton. But we all knew that, right John?

3.) This is why I am not watching any more news until this person is dispatched from the race.

C.) John will continue to act like a child whenever it comes to the Clintons. It’s one of the holdovers from his loyal Republican days. Hard to give up that wonderful Two Minutes Hate.

Not quite.

However, we have a foreign minister who doesn’t like foreigners, who is campaigning on an anti-Asian stance while representing us in China, who has stated he will criticise a free trade agreement in public while representing us (said FTA passed by 85% of the House), and who claims that he could have got a better deal – when the opposition trade spokesman and the head of the WTO think it was a ‘high quality’ deal.

Wanted – out and out xenophobe. Will trade one egotistical Maori politician well past his use by date.

Come off it already.

Wanking. You didn’t answer the question, but attempted to deflect it. If its all about oil then we’re never leaving. If it’s not, we will. I make it zero sum, unless there is another factor. you say there isn’t, we´ll see.

Sorry to break this to you, but our policy toward Israel is not going to meaningfully change with any of the three remaining candidates in the White House (it’s part and parcel to the broader economic rationale for being engaged in the region)

More wanking. I think it will change with Obama, for the better – you don’t. Your parenthetical phrase is baffling. American presence in Iraq, motivated, say, 90%, by oil, has what exactly to do with Israel?

myiq2xu GoatBoy Says:

I love the smell of hot goat sex in the morning. You know, one time I was loose in a goat pen, for 12 hours. When it was all over, I looked up. I couldn’t find one standing, not one stinkin’ goat. The smell, you know that hot goat sex smell, the whole pen. Smelled like… victory.

Someday this war’s gonna end…

You ought to write a book about your hot goat sex orgies. I would suggest ‘Head or Tail: Which End Should I Start At?’.

Well, there is automata theory and studying for midterms. Would that be a good fun?

Only when compared to pulling your teeth out at home with Vise-Grips or reading about NoIQ and his hotgoatsexcapades.

Sorry to break this to you, but our policy toward Israel is not going to meaningfully change with any of the three remaining candidates in the White House (it’s part and parcel to the broader economic rationale for being engaged in the region) and the timing of our troops coming home will have little do with our support of Israel. Come off it already.

(shaking fist at bottom of this thread)

Some Guy Named Matt Says:

any back on topic, me and the wife did our parts today. Clinon by 4-6 range.

Man this is almost as fun as prediciting football scores!!

The New York Times has a fun little interactive on its home page. It shows how Clinton can come close to sealing the deal (The Challenge For Clinton).

If, for example, she wins 60% of the delegates in the 10 remaining contests, she would need only 54% of the uncommitted super delegates to win the nomination. She currently has the support of 53% of the super delegates.

On the other hand, if she sticks to her average result so far of 47% in delegate wins, she would need a whopping 79% of the uncommitted super delegates to seal the deal.

Most interesting of all, if she only wins 36% of the delegates in the remaining primaries, she cannot win the nomination at all unless there is a massive super delegate defection, or unless she can pull off some convention floor death match (Xbox should make a video game of this).

A close result in PA won’t do. If Senator Clinton has convinced large numbers of voters in this state that she is a better choice, I think she could honestly say that she has begun to make a strong case for her candidacy. But short of that, to paraphrase the line from All About Eve, “Fasten your seatbelts, it’s going to be a bumpy primary campaign!”

A “good deal” of the political cover? Really? How much?

If you’re right, then the ‘speedy’ withdrawal from Iraq promised by both Obama and Clinton can’t take place; economic determinism must win out above everything else.

If, however, there is a strong enough movement amongst Americans to pull out, regardless of the consequences to the economy, high oil prices, et., then there shouldn’t be any problem. Am I correct to infer this?

Conservatively Liberal Says: I’m not even a Democrat, I’m a die-hard supporter of John “Crypt Keeper” McCain.

Funny what happens when you use the truth filter.

I’ve often argued the economically determined nature of the war. But it’s ridiculous to assert that after over 5 years of slaughter the American people accepted it. Do you think the war could have gone on for a minute if Americans thought their kin were dieing for oil?

They were sold on the political argument behind it – and that has a great deal to do with the persistent conflation of American/Israeli political interests. Every war in the last 100 years has been about Empire of one sort of another – the spice has always had to flow. But to pitch this war you need a politics, and to suggest that Israeli interests have not provided a good deal of the necessary political cover is simply silly.

I suppose the clamor for war against Iran is about oil, too. Is that correct? If you want to something morally wrong, you need a beard.

Wilfred this thread is winding down, but you are really stretching here. A “good deal” of the political cover? Really? How much? Remove the geopolitical implications of the vast reserves of oil in the area and we never invade Iraq in the first place (911 probably does not happen either, but…). There are many reasons why we are still there, but the main part of it has to due with the stubborness of our leaders and no sense of sacrifice on the part of the American people. The media coverage has been abysmal, first with the cheerleading and now with the silence.

Historically, we have been a friend to Israel in the region because it has served our strategic interests. Israel provides us with an in-region friendly counterweight to the belligerent players in the ME. We were very close with the Shah and are still very close with the Saudi Royal family. Why do you think that is? It’s all part of the same reason. Access to cheap energy. The Bush Admin. painted Saddam as a threat to energy security. The American people went along for the ride.

The “end-times” crowd with their rationale is a rather recent phenomenon in that they have more political power than ever before, so it’s more vocal, although it will wane come November.

I think this quote from Three Days of the Condor with Robert Redford (Turner) sums it up nicely. It’s at the end, where he is confronting his Company handler (Higgins) before going into the NY Times building to spill the beans. This was made in 1975. Absent the melodrama, the underlying sentiments apply just as much today. Stable American democracy relies on access to cheap energy. Cable TV, fast food and mass religion help as well.
————————————————————————————————————————Higgins: It’s simple economics. Today it’s oil, right? In ten or fifteen years, food. Plutonium. Maybe even sooner. Now, what do you think the people are gonna want us to do then?

Joe Turner: Ask them?

Higgins: Not now – then! Ask ‘em when they’re running out. Ask ‘em when there’s no heat in their homes and they’re cold. Ask ‘em when their engines stop. Ask ‘em when people who have never known hunger start going hungry. You wanna know something? They won’t want us to ask ‘em. They’ll just want us to get it for ‘em!

back in 2002 a time/cnn poll showed that 59% of americans believe the events in revelation will happen. according to other polls, 40 or so percent of americans believe the rapture will happen ‘in their lifetime’.

I’d like to see a more recent poll. On 9/11 I was pretty sure Bush/Cheney were about to nuke the planet myself. 9/11 was a bad marker for this kind of thinking. But that’s higher than I was expecting at any rate.

according to a recent poll, 82% of american christians “say they have a ‘moral and biblical obligation’ to support the State of Israel”.

I think we have a moral obligation to support the State of Israel as well. I also think we have a moral obligation to support India, France, and Uruguay. That question is pretty fuzzy. My support for Israel probably looks a lot different from Tim LeHay. I’d like to see ‘Biblical’ isolated and asked of all Americans rather than just Christians with cross-tabs. Christian is a poorly defined group and can easily be carved down to produce the survey outcome you want. Christians constantly fight amongst themselves what constitutes a Christian.

trust me, when it comes to support for israel in america christian supporters far outnumber jewish ones.

The Christians, on the other hand, almost seem as dismissive of the impact on Jews as they are on the impact of Muslims. They care about Israel only as the location of their holy sites and if God intends to save the Jews from the ionizing radiation and pressure waves, then he’ll extend his magnificent hand and do that. We needn’t worry about it as a policy consideration.

to the rapture-ready crowd the jews are merely cannon fodder. a necessary speed bump on the way to ‘eternal peace’.

But the 60% is way too high. Maybe 20% tops. Rapture and end-times is pretty narrow stuff and doesn’t find any home in most Christian sects. It’s still a big (and vocal) number, but it’s not exactly a core belief.

back in 2002 a time/cnn poll showed that 59% of americans believe the events in revelation will happen. according to other polls, 40 or so percent of americans believe the rapture will happen ‘in their lifetime’.

it’s bigger than you think.