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	<title>Comments on: This Must Be Stopped</title>
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		<title>By: Searchlight Crusade</title>
		<link>http://www.balloon-juice.com/2006/01/08/this-must-be-stopped/#comment-379233</link>
		<dc:creator>Searchlight Crusade</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Sep 2007 21:14:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.balloon-juice.com/?p=6473#comment-379233</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;Surveillance - Should it be Illegal?&lt;/strong&gt;

 Balloon Juice has a piece on how you can get anyone&#039;s phone records for just over $100. And this evidently surprises not only him but the place he got it. Since the 1970s, the technology has existed to monitor...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>Surveillance &#8211; Should it be Illegal?</strong></p>
<p> Balloon Juice has a piece on how you can get anyone&#8217;s phone records for just over $100. And this evidently surprises not only him but the place he got it. Since the 1970s, the technology has existed to monitor&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Don</title>
		<link>http://www.balloon-juice.com/2006/01/08/this-must-be-stopped/#comment-120989</link>
		<dc:creator>Don</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Jan 2006 22:31:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.balloon-juice.com/?p=6473#comment-120989</guid>
		<description>I call ho-hum on this. Yeah, it&#039;s horrid but it&#039;s not at all a surprise. The only people with the real power to stop this - the cell companies - have little motivation to stop it from happening. I have come to agree with Bruce Schneier that &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.schneier.com/crypto-gram-0204.html#6&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;the solution is to make the holders of the data liable for its release.&lt;/a&gt; Until the point where they feel it in their wallets why would they accept the additional expense of hardening themselves to social engineering?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I call ho-hum on this. Yeah, it&#8217;s horrid but it&#8217;s not at all a surprise. The only people with the real power to stop this &#8211; the cell companies &#8211; have little motivation to stop it from happening. I have come to agree with Bruce Schneier that <a href="http://www.schneier.com/crypto-gram-0204.html#6" rel="nofollow">the solution is to make the holders of the data liable for its release.</a> Until the point where they feel it in their wallets why would they accept the additional expense of hardening themselves to social engineering?</p>
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		<title>By: Skip</title>
		<link>http://www.balloon-juice.com/2006/01/08/this-must-be-stopped/#comment-120976</link>
		<dc:creator>Skip</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Jan 2006 21:08:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.balloon-juice.com/?p=6473#comment-120976</guid>
		<description>&quot;The republicans will love this until their calls to the girlfriends are published.&quot;

Along with their phone numbers, from Henry Hyde and Bob Livingston&#039;s little black book.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;The republicans will love this until their calls to the girlfriends are published.&#8221;</p>
<p>Along with their phone numbers, from Henry Hyde and Bob Livingston&#8217;s little black book.</p>
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		<title>By: aw</title>
		<link>http://www.balloon-juice.com/2006/01/08/this-must-be-stopped/#comment-120935</link>
		<dc:creator>aw</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Jan 2006 18:23:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.balloon-juice.com/?p=6473#comment-120935</guid>
		<description>The republicans will love this until their calls to the girlfriends are published.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The republicans will love this until their calls to the girlfriends are published.</p>
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		<title>By: mark</title>
		<link>http://www.balloon-juice.com/2006/01/08/this-must-be-stopped/#comment-120928</link>
		<dc:creator>mark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Jan 2006 17:33:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.balloon-juice.com/?p=6473#comment-120928</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t know much law, but when Tony Soprano makes an important call he drives to a pay phone to use a land line because the government considers a cell call to be public speech the same as having a conversation in a crowded elevator. Therefore, there is no privacy in cell phoning.
Could someone whose knowledge of this area comes from a more sophisticated source than cable comment?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t know much law, but when Tony Soprano makes an important call he drives to a pay phone to use a land line because the government considers a cell call to be public speech the same as having a conversation in a crowded elevator. Therefore, there is no privacy in cell phoning.<br />
Could someone whose knowledge of this area comes from a more sophisticated source than cable comment?</p>
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		<title>By: Skip</title>
		<link>http://www.balloon-juice.com/2006/01/08/this-must-be-stopped/#comment-120913</link>
		<dc:creator>Skip</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Jan 2006 16:45:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.balloon-juice.com/?p=6473#comment-120913</guid>
		<description>I shelled out the $110 for John&#039;s phone call list. Fascinating. On a daily basis there is a pattern: one to Armstrong Williams, two to Ben Stein, three to Peggy Noonan, four to James Dobsoni, five to Kate Moss, six to Dick Morris, seven to someone named Jeff Gannon.

But what do all the 1-900 calls mean?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I shelled out the $110 for John&#8217;s phone call list. Fascinating. On a daily basis there is a pattern: one to Armstrong Williams, two to Ben Stein, three to Peggy Noonan, four to James Dobsoni, five to Kate Moss, six to Dick Morris, seven to someone named Jeff Gannon.</p>
<p>But what do all the 1-900 calls mean?</p>
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		<title>By: ppGaz</title>
		<link>http://www.balloon-juice.com/2006/01/08/this-must-be-stopped/#comment-120911</link>
		<dc:creator>ppGaz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Jan 2006 16:42:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.balloon-juice.com/?p=6473#comment-120911</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;I’m of the opinion that private sector data mining is far more intrusive and potentially damaging than anything the government has been doing.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

The annoyance and harm that invasion by private data aggregators is not to be dismissed.  It&#039;s major.  But it is not even in the same league with the power of government to invade your life and fuck you over.  

The main thing that private and government intrusion have in common is that your privacy is singular.  You either have it or you don&#039;t.  But shrugging at either one of these threats in favor of paying attention to the other is just a gross misunderstanding of the problems.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>
<blockquote>I&#8217;m of the opinion that private sector data mining is far more intrusive and potentially damaging than anything the government has been doing.</p></blockquote>
<p>The annoyance and harm that invasion by private data aggregators is not to be dismissed.  It&#8217;s major.  But it is not even in the same league with the power of government to invade your life and fuck you over.</p>
<p>The main thing that private and government intrusion have in common is that your privacy is singular.  You either have it or you don&#8217;t.  But shrugging at either one of these threats in favor of paying attention to the other is just a gross misunderstanding of the problems.</p>
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		<title>By: Al Maviva</title>
		<link>http://www.balloon-juice.com/2006/01/08/this-must-be-stopped/#comment-120877</link>
		<dc:creator>Al Maviva</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Jan 2006 14:05:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.balloon-juice.com/?p=6473#comment-120877</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m of the opinion that private sector data mining is far more intrusive and potentially damaging than anything the government has been doing.  Anybody here ever receive highly targeted marketing - like ads for sales on diapers that just happen to be the size their toddler is in?  That&#039;s because supermarkets track your purchases through those savings cards and/or your credit/debit cards, clever marketers match up that data with advertising, and build a profile of your consumer habits.  

The other great threat comes from data aggregators that produce a dossier on you using sometimes upwards of a hundred commercial and public records sources.  Potential employers, mortgage companies, etc. then make decisions based on the dossier.  The problem is the data is often flawed (Florida felon purge, anybody?) and there is no recourse, since &quot;nobody owns the data.&quot;  If you can manage to track down the source of the erroneous record, and get them to correct it, and then get them to correct it with the aggregator, you are not only diligent but lucky too.  What is probably needed is a strong statutory data integrity/safeguarding/recourse protection along the lines of Germany&#039;s &lt;em&gt;Datenschutz &lt;/em&gt; law.  What probably prevents this is the extent to which corporate interests control both parties&#039; handling of lower profile regulatory matters, and that the corporate interests (whether they are aggregators, producers of retail products, or financial institutions) don&#039;t mind losing out on a customer here and there so long as they have greater surety (and can sell more goods) to customers who pass muster.  That, and the fact that data aggregation is generally unobtrusive, so many people probably don&#039;t mind data aggregators, as long as their activities lead to more offers of better consumer goods, and the aggregated data doesn&#039;t get in the way of buying a house or getting a job.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m of the opinion that private sector data mining is far more intrusive and potentially damaging than anything the government has been doing.  Anybody here ever receive highly targeted marketing &#8211; like ads for sales on diapers that just happen to be the size their toddler is in?  That&#8217;s because supermarkets track your purchases through those savings cards and/or your credit/debit cards, clever marketers match up that data with advertising, and build a profile of your consumer habits.</p>
<p>The other great threat comes from data aggregators that produce a dossier on you using sometimes upwards of a hundred commercial and public records sources.  Potential employers, mortgage companies, etc. then make decisions based on the dossier.  The problem is the data is often flawed (Florida felon purge, anybody?) and there is no recourse, since &#8220;nobody owns the data.&#8221;  If you can manage to track down the source of the erroneous record, and get them to correct it, and then get them to correct it with the aggregator, you are not only diligent but lucky too.  What is probably needed is a strong statutory data integrity/safeguarding/recourse protection along the lines of Germany&#8217;s <em>Datenschutz </em> law.  What probably prevents this is the extent to which corporate interests control both parties&#8217; handling of lower profile regulatory matters, and that the corporate interests (whether they are aggregators, producers of retail products, or financial institutions) don&#8217;t mind losing out on a customer here and there so long as they have greater surety (and can sell more goods) to customers who pass muster.  That, and the fact that data aggregation is generally unobtrusive, so many people probably don&#8217;t mind data aggregators, as long as their activities lead to more offers of better consumer goods, and the aggregated data doesn&#8217;t get in the way of buying a house or getting a job.</p>
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		<title>By: Jcricket</title>
		<link>http://www.balloon-juice.com/2006/01/08/this-must-be-stopped/#comment-120842</link>
		<dc:creator>Jcricket</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Jan 2006 05:56:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.balloon-juice.com/?p=6473#comment-120842</guid>
		<description>Given that telecom companies, securities firms and energy trading companies seem to be incapable of operating within the law, we obviously need to loosen the laws. They&#039;re too tight. These are all simply cases of good, non-law-abiding corporations caught up in a Legal Smear campaign

I think the &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.btcnews.com/btcnews/1185&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;President is thinking along the same lines lately&lt;/a&gt;. I wonder if &quot;I had my fingers crossed at the time&quot; will be the new &quot;Depends on what the meaning of the word is, is&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Given that telecom companies, securities firms and energy trading companies seem to be incapable of operating within the law, we obviously need to loosen the laws. They&#8217;re too tight. These are all simply cases of good, non-law-abiding corporations caught up in a Legal Smear campaign</p>
<p>I think the <a href="http://www.btcnews.com/btcnews/1185" rel="nofollow">President is thinking along the same lines lately</a>. I wonder if &#8220;I had my fingers crossed at the time&#8221; will be the new &#8220;Depends on what the meaning of the word is, is&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: HH</title>
		<link>http://www.balloon-juice.com/2006/01/08/this-must-be-stopped/#comment-120834</link>
		<dc:creator>HH</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Jan 2006 03:17:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.balloon-juice.com/?p=6473#comment-120834</guid>
		<description>The &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.suntimes.com/output/news/cst-nws-privacy05.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;original Sun-Times article&lt;/a&gt; linked at Drudge...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The <a href="http://www.suntimes.com/output/news/cst-nws-privacy05.html" rel="nofollow">original Sun-Times article</a> linked at Drudge&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Pb</title>
		<link>http://www.balloon-juice.com/2006/01/08/this-must-be-stopped/#comment-120831</link>
		<dc:creator>Pb</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Jan 2006 03:09:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.balloon-juice.com/?p=6473#comment-120831</guid>
		<description>Shygetz,

&lt;blockquote&gt;Why are there laws that the majority of people break on a regular basis?&lt;/blockquote&gt;

I guess there are two ways to take that. One, why are there laws like that in the first place? And two, why must people break them? I think I generally prefer the first interpretation.

But really, add it to the list of similar imponderables. Like, why don&#039;t the &quot;court costs&quot; in a ticket only go to paying, um, the actual court costs? Or, why is the speed limit set to 45 on the spiffy new thoroughfare with the speed trap on it, but 55 on the rickety old road it connects to? Or, why does the government set itself up to profit from allegedly illegal, immoral, unhealthy, or unsafe behavior in the first place, thus giving it a vested interest in not eliminating (or perhaps even encouraging) such behavior, so as not to eliminate its revenue stream...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Shygetz,</p>
<p>
<blockquote>Why are there laws that the majority of people break on a regular basis?</p></blockquote>
<p>I guess there are two ways to take that. One, why are there laws like that in the first place? And two, why must people break them? I think I generally prefer the first interpretation.</p>
<p>But really, add it to the list of similar imponderables. Like, why don&#8217;t the &#8220;court costs&#8221; in a ticket only go to paying, um, the actual court costs? Or, why is the speed limit set to 45 on the spiffy new thoroughfare with the speed trap on it, but 55 on the rickety old road it connects to? Or, why does the government set itself up to profit from allegedly illegal, immoral, unhealthy, or unsafe behavior in the first place, thus giving it a vested interest in not eliminating (or perhaps even encouraging) such behavior, so as not to eliminate its revenue stream&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: demimondian</title>
		<link>http://www.balloon-juice.com/2006/01/08/this-must-be-stopped/#comment-120829</link>
		<dc:creator>demimondian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Jan 2006 03:02:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.balloon-juice.com/?p=6473#comment-120829</guid>
		<description>Tulk -- that&#039;s the first thing I thought, too.  (Well, actually, what I thought was &quot;Oh, my Lord, this is a gold mine for tracking people,&quot; but it comes to the same thing in the end.)  I&#039;m not sure that the DOJ would actually need a warrant -- I know Al Maviva has read up on this, and the situation is far more complicated than I&#039;d ever thought.  Either way, though, this is clearly in violation of the Electronic Communications Privacy Act of 1986, even for a private citizen.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tulk&#8212;that&#8217;s the first thing I thought, too.  (Well, actually, what I thought was &#8220;Oh, my Lord, this is a gold mine for tracking people,&#8221; but it comes to the same thing in the end.)  I&#8217;m not sure that the <span class="caps">DOJ</span> would actually need a warrant&#8212;I know Al Maviva has read up on this, and the situation is far more complicated than I&#8217;d ever thought.  Either way, though, this is clearly in violation of the Electronic Communications Privacy Act of 1986, even for a private citizen.</p>
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		<title>By: Shygetz</title>
		<link>http://www.balloon-juice.com/2006/01/08/this-must-be-stopped/#comment-120825</link>
		<dc:creator>Shygetz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Jan 2006 02:31:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.balloon-juice.com/?p=6473#comment-120825</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;This must also be stopped.


http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/0108B-repwatcha08.html&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Automated speen monitors on a freeway?  Blech!  Why are there laws that the majority of people break on a regular basis?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>
<blockquote>This must also be stopped.</p></blockquote>
<p><a href="http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/0108B-repwatcha08.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.azcentral.com/news/.....cha08.html</a></p>
<p>Automated speen monitors on a freeway?  Blech!  Why are there laws that the majority of people break on a regular basis?</p>
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		<title>By: Shygetz</title>
		<link>http://www.balloon-juice.com/2006/01/08/this-must-be-stopped/#comment-120824</link>
		<dc:creator>Shygetz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Jan 2006 02:29:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.balloon-juice.com/?p=6473#comment-120824</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;What and stand in the way of the Liberterian philosophy and selling anything the public will buy?&lt;/blockquote&gt;

That is the Propertarian philosophy--Libertarians and Propertarians split some time ago, but they forgot to let everyone else know.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>
<blockquote>What and stand in the way of the Liberterian philosophy and selling anything the public will buy?</p></blockquote>
<p>That is the Propertarian philosophy&#8212;Libertarians and Propertarians split some time ago, but they forgot to let everyone else know.</p>
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		<title>By: The Other Steve</title>
		<link>http://www.balloon-juice.com/2006/01/08/this-must-be-stopped/#comment-120815</link>
		<dc:creator>The Other Steve</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Jan 2006 00:57:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.balloon-juice.com/?p=6473#comment-120815</guid>
		<description>It should be noted...

We can&#039;t do something about this because Congress is owned by the telecom lobbyists.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It should be noted&#8230;</p>
<p>We can&#8217;t do something about this because Congress is owned by the telecom lobbyists.</p>
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